America must be removed from the "Islamic World."

[Gawd]

Coito, you are too ignorant of the world. Guess what Egypt & Libya are? They are both secular and (was) ruled by atheist dictators who repressed religion, like the Muslim Brotherhood who do good. Guess what both dictators did in those countries? They blamed Muslims for the uprisings. Your prejudices that Muslims are the problem is wrong. It is the atheists, and in the case of Egypt, the Christians from America that are the problem.

[Seth]

Coito, you are too ignorant of the world. Guess what Egypt & Libya are? They are both secular and (was) ruled by atheist dictators who repressed religion, like the Muslim Brotherhood who do good. Guess what both dictators did in those countries? They blamed Muslims for the uprisings. Your prejudices that Muslims are the problem is wrong. It is the atheists, and in the case of Egypt, the Christians from America that are the problem.

Is this the same "Muslim Brotherhood" whose spiritual leader hopes to kill all the Jews from his wheelchair? The same Muslim Brotherhood that supports and funds radical Islamic terrorism and wants to impose the Caliphate on the entire world? The same Muslim Brotherhood whose members foment Islamic revolution in order to bring back the 12th Imam by "washing the world in blood?"

That "Muslim Brotherhood who do good?"

Fuck your grasshopper-eating, camel-fucking Muslim Brotherhood. I fart in their beards. I wave my privates in the general direction of Mecca. I piss on the grave of Mohammed. I shit in the well of the 12th Imam.

I hope all their virgins look like Andrea Dworkin and have eternal PMS, and may they, and their supporters and defenders, ascend to Paradise to meet them soon.

I'll be right glad to help any number of them along with 250 grains of copper-jacketed lead delivered to their smelly, turbaned heads at 4000 FPS. Don't worry, it'll be humane, they'll never know what hit them. The first clue they'll get is 72 harpies simultaneously shrieking "Harcourt Fenton Mudd!!"

Trust me, it'll be no tribble at all to accommodate their desire for Paradise.

[Gawd]

Seth, you poison yourself with your own American propaganda. Why don't you instead go shoot those 50 Jews that met with Obama today on how to strengthen Jewish supremacy and drive out Arabs from their homes? And guess what, American puppets have done worse than the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood brought change to Egypt and drove out that atheistic dictator Mubarak who Americans love.

[Seth]

Seth, you poison yourself with your own American propaganda. Why don't you instead go shoot those 50 Jews that met with Obama today on how to strengthen Jewish supremacy and drive out Arabs from their homes? And guess what, American puppets have done worse than the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood brought change to Egypt and drove out that atheistic dictator Mubarak who Americans love.

I'd rather shoot 500 radical Muslims, thanks. And I will, if called upon to do so in defense of THIS country from radical Islam.

The Jews didn't blow up the Twin Towers, radical Muslims did. The Jews don't strap bombs to ignorant 14 year old kids and send them off to die. The Jews don't stick women in holes up to their necks and throw rocks at them till they are dead. The Jews don't cut the hands off of women and children. The Jews don't flog women in public for showing their faces. The Jews don't hang homosexuals. The Jews don't want a worldwide theocratic tyranny called the "Caliphate."

The grasshopper-eating camel-fuckers of the Muslim Brotherhood do.

[Gawd]

The Muslim Brotherhood is not a radical group. In fact, after they helped overthrow the American puppet dictator in Egypt, they stepped aside and are not even running for control of Egypt. Your violent prejudices and death threats against the Muslim Brotherhood and Muslims in general is only because you believe that Americans can do no wrong and try to rationalize away all the atrocities of Christians and Jews to suit your prejudiced views. Even I have not threatened Jews & Americans with death threats in all my posts and yet here you are showing your monstrosity in willing to kill any Muslims.

People of this board, through Seth you see the typical American. Do you want to support crazy extremists like him who advocate mass murder in the American name, or would you rather support a moderate like me?

[Ian]

A wild speculation to consider...

A couple decades from now, a re-born Caliphate might actually be a good thing for the west. Technology will eventually make oil nearly obsolete, or at least the US, Europe and others won't be dependent upon overseas oil for their energy needs. Once that shift in the world energy market occurs, policies of non-involvement and ideological detente might be the order of the day for the western powers. And in the Middle East, once oil revenues start plunging, many nations will find themselves top-heavy without the infrastructure or civil societies to keep up in a globalized world. This is something that has been predicted for decades already, and it's why countries like Saudi Arabia work to keep prices low - to stave off the innovations that will eventually make their #1 export worthless. Political upheaval will be inevitable; I for one doubt the word "Saudi" will be used on the Arabian Peninsula a few decades from now. And those leaders that replace them may not be (and IMO probably won't be, especially if the west stays uninvolved) democratic. They might be theocratic. And while the secular countries of the world will be very cautious of a Caliphate, behind certain closed doors of power they will breathe a sigh of relief and begin planning the end game. Once the rest of the world no longer needs Middle Eastern oil, a Caliphate becomes a tolerable lightning rod for all the Islamic fundamentalists currently fighting for one. Al Qaeda-style terrorists are seeking the re-emergence of a Caliphate, inspiring Sunnis to attack those who stand in the way of it, and in the process they're goading the US and others into taking controversial foreign policies for years. But if the heirs of Al Qaeda are given rule over actual territory, legitimate organs of governments, and real sovereign power, then they'll become focused on securing their own power and internal politics. They'll seek to grow the Caliphate (probably originating in the former Saudi state) and annex the smorgasbord of other nations that are Sunni-majority and Arabic-speaking. And as those conservative Sunnis who rule the Caliphate seek to strengthen and expand their power, they'll be more likely to be provoked into hostile confrontation with the outside world... and then destroyed. The militaries of the US and other major powers were never designed to root out fanatic insurgents hiding amongst populations hostile to the west. They were designed to thrash and defeat other militaries. And an eventual confrontation between a Caliphate and the rest of the world would give the rest the opportunity to do precisely that. If the Caliph is blamed for starting the war, then theocratic Islam itself would, at long last, formally surrender. And perhaps Islam itself will start to fade into secularism, much like Christianity has done over the past few centuries.

Which isn't to say that I think that's what the future looks like. Just a few thoughts to chew on.

[Ian]

People of this board, through Seth you see the typical American. Do you want to support crazy extremists like him who advocate mass murder in the American name, or would you rather support a moderate like me?

Oh FFS give it a rest. 1) Seth is not typical. Moreover, since you probably missed it, he stated his intentions to be argumentative and confrontational when he joined the forum. I don't assume all of his posts represent exactly what goes on in his head. 2) You're not even close to moderate, and you know that the people of this forum have told you that ad nauseum. Are you really trying to win people over? I thought you were just here to voice your thoughts. If you're trying to win converts to your cause, I'd say your efforts at Rationalia have been counterproductive.

[Gawd]

People of this board, through Seth you see the typical American. Do you want to support crazy extremists like him who advocate mass murder in the American name, or would you rather support a moderate like me?

Oh FFS give it a rest. 1) Seth is not typical. Moreover, since you probably missed it, he stated his intentions to be argumentative and confrontational when he joined the forum. I don't assume all of his posts represent exactly what goes on in his head. 2) You're not even close to moderate, and you know that the people of this forum have told you that ad nauseum. Are you really trying to win people over? I thought you were just here to voice your thoughts. If you're trying to win converts to your cause, I'd say your efforts at Rationalia have been conuterproductive.

And just exactly how am I not moderate? I don't advocate violence like many Americans do. In fact, I have never advocated violence against anyone. Is it because I don't support your "American freedoms" that you see me as non-moderate? In the Wikileaks threads, you yourself have shown that you'd like free speech stifled.

[Ian]

People of this board, through Seth you see the typical American. Do you want to support crazy extremists like him who advocate mass murder in the American name, or would you rather support a moderate like me?

Oh FFS give it a rest. 1) Seth is not typical. Moreover, since you probably missed it, he stated his intentions to be argumentative and confrontational when he joined the forum. I don't assume all of his posts represent exactly what goes on in his head. 2) You're not even close to moderate, and you know that the people of this forum have told you that ad nauseum. Are you really trying to win people over? I thought you were just here to voice your thoughts. If you're trying to win converts to your cause, I'd say your efforts at Rationalia have been conuterproductive.

And just exactly how am I not moderate? I don't advocate violence like many Americans do. In fact, I have never advocated violence against anyone. Is it because I don't support your "American freedoms" that you see me as non-moderate? In the Wikileaks threads, you yourself have shown that you'd like free speech stifled.

Horsehit. You read what you want to read, not what I actually write.

Have a look at what I wrote a couple hours ago about my thoughts on free speech:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 60#p779727

You are not a moderate because you're prone to making blanket statements against entire countries, even entire religions (namely Judaism). That alone excludes you from using the term moderate.

[Gawd]

People of this board, through Seth you see the typical American. Do you want to support crazy extremists like him who advocate mass murder in the American name, or would you rather support a moderate like me?

Oh FFS give it a rest. 1) Seth is not typical. Moreover, since you probably missed it, he stated his intentions to be argumentative and confrontational when he joined the forum. I don't assume all of his posts represent exactly what goes on in his head. 2) You're not even close to moderate, and you know that the people of this forum have told you that ad nauseum. Are you really trying to win people over? I thought you were just here to voice your thoughts. If you're trying to win converts to your cause, I'd say your efforts at Rationalia have been conuterproductive.

And just exactly how am I not moderate? I don't advocate violence like many Americans do. In fact, I have never advocated violence against anyone. Is it because I don't support your "American freedoms" that you see me as non-moderate? In the Wikileaks threads, you yourself have shown that you'd like free speech stifled.

Horsehit. You read what you want to read, not what I actually write.

Have a look at what I wrote a couple hours ago about my thoughts on free speech:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 60#p779727

You are not a moderate because you're prone to making blanket statements against entire countries, even entire religions (namely Judaism). That alone excludes you from using the term moderate.

When push came to shove in Wikileaks, you advocated taking measures to see that government "secrets" never come to see the day of light again.

And my statements about America and Judaism are entirely accurate and my threads are always backed up with credible proof written by Jewish authors. It is you that is non-moderate. You are highly conservative and support faux democratic "principles". In the case of Egypt, you were even denying American responsibility in keeping Mubarak in power all those years.

[Ian]

Okay, sure Gawd. Ya got me. I am against free speech. And that's all Wikileaks ever was, free speech, pure and simple. Just keep telling yourself all that.

EDIT: A very succinct summary on my thoughts on Wikileaks: In principle, I am very much pro-Wikileaks. It can perform a very valuable function. My complaints were about the way it was actually run by Assange - publishing anything and everything, even those things that did not constitute whistleblowing at all, without regard to some very serious consequences. What Assange did was irresponsible, a reckless abuse of the power that he created. I hope Wikileaks (or Openleaks) survives and goes on a more responsible path once Assange is gone.

The fact that you post some articles with what you write is meaningless. You consistently show that you're incapable of being objective about them. With respect to Egypt, you bet I can draw down the US' role in keeping him in power! To quote you: "It is America's fault!" That's all you ever do around this forum, point fingers at the things that you hate. And since you're so paranoid and irrational, they're only ever pointed at the US and Israel. Gawd, Egypt has never been a democracy. In the last sixty years they're had all of three dictators, half of that time spent in the Soviet sphere. Their trade to and from the US is only 9% of their total commerce. Their military budget has been decreasing for years. Egypt actually uses more oil than it produces. Their GDP today is half a Trillion dollars. But for the measly $1.3 billion the US provides annually in military aid (as per the Camp David Accords! Funny how you never seem to talk about that much), it was your conclusion that it was the US and the US alone keeping him there all this time. Was it the US and the US alone keeping Qaddafi in power all this time as well? Venezuela is far more dependent upon US oil revenues than Egypt was on military aid - is the US responsible for keeping Chavez in power there? I've said before and I'll say again - there's a whole forest of issues out there, and you're focused so closely on your pissant little area of the world that you can't see the rest.

[sandinista]

You are not a moderate because you're prone to making blanket statements against entire countries, even entire religions (namely Judaism). That alone excludes you from using the term moderate.

The term "moderate" is completely meaningless. It's generally used by neo-liberals to describe, well...anyone who is opposes neo-liberal ideology. If, your above explanation of "being moderate" were true, no one on this board would be moderate. People have made blanket statements about many countries (North Korea, Iraq, Saudi, The US, Cuba, Venezuela etc etc) and about entire religions (islam, christianity and judaism).

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito, you are too ignorant of the world. Guess what Egypt & Libya are? They are both secular and (was) ruled by atheist dictators who repressed religion, like the Muslim Brotherhood who do good. Guess what both dictators did in those countries? They blamed Muslims for the uprisings. Your prejudices that Muslims are the problem is wrong. It is the atheists, and in the case of Egypt, the Christians from America that are the problem.

Neither were atheists. Neither repressed Islam. They repressed other religions. Islam was practiced openly. Under the Constitution under Mubarak, which was suspended during the uprisings at the express demand of the opposition, any legislation had to agree with Islamic law. Under Mubarak, the Adhan (Islamic call to prayer) that is heard five times a day had the effect of regulating the pace of everything from business to media and entertainment in Egypt. Cairo has so many mosques it is called the "city of 1,000 minarets." Islam is the official religion of Egypt, and Christianity and Judaism are "recognized." ALL OTHER RELIGIONS ARE FORBIDDEN.

Islam is a problem, but not the problem. So is Christianity.

[Seth]

The Muslim Brotherhood is not a radical group. In fact, after they helped overthrow the American puppet dictator in Egypt, they stepped aside and are not even running for control of Egypt.

The fuck they aren't. They just step aside and let their hand-picked candidates run on their own, but once their shills are in office, the grasshopper-eating camel-fuckers in the Muslim Brotherhood will step right in to power.

Your violent prejudices and death threats against the Muslim Brotherhood and Muslims in general is only because you believe that Americans can do no wrong and try to rationalize away all the atrocities of Christians and Jews to suit your prejudiced views.

Hey, I KNOW the Muslim Brotherhood is a violent terrorist organization that needs to be dead. The fact that you allege "atrocities" to Chrisitans and Jews is not my problem. I'm focusing on the real threat here, which is radical Islam.

Even I have not threatened Jews & Americans with death threats in all my posts and yet here you are showing your monstrosity in willing to kill any Muslims.

No, just the radical, violent terrorist ones...and their sympathizers and supporters...who are a danger to world peace.

People of this board, through Seth you see the typical American. Do you want to support crazy extremists like him who advocate mass murder in the American name, or would you rather support a moderate like me?

False dilemma fallacy. And a lie.