French Riots. Really? Really???

[Rum]

I am 100% behind the French. Their workers, whether they consciously know it or not, are trying to protect something great about France and that is the notion that work is not life and life is not work. Life is and should be a balance. The world is being increasingly overtaken by international capitalism, which is driving down wages in its relentless pursuit of profit. In that process, as is easily evidenced the rich are getting richer and the poor even poorer. The French 'social culture' is naturally socialist (far more left as a whole than most other non French people realise!) and they rebel at this notion. Its in their DNA!

Tomorrow in the UK the so called comprehensive spending review is announced. Its main purpose is to get the UK back into 'credit worthiness'. The people who got us there in the first place? Workers? The average mortgage slave? No. The people who own most of stuff. Fucking wake up people.

Riot france riot far far far too many countries take shit like this lying down.

I agree with Rum as well, I hope the Unions in the UK grow some French balls.

You know they won't though, right?

Interesting take on this on radio four with a French political commentator and a Brit one. The French people was saying that French people really believe that their government represents ordinary people all the time and that direct action makes the government listen and take note, whereas the Brts tend to think that our government is almost a dictatorship once it is n power. I'm not assure I agree but it is one take on it.

[Svartalf]

Well... if the UMP admlinistrations of the last 15 years have actually represented the common people, I'm just heading for Notredame because it means I'm a bishop

[Coito ergo sum]

The Iraq was was a success?

Yes, the defeat of Hussein's Iraq took a matter of weeks, and entailed remarkably low U.S. casualties. Even including the guerilla war that followed the invasion, US casualties have been extraordinarily low - 4,000 dead in 7 years? That's not much higher than the rate of deaths if all the soldiers stayed at home and worked regular jobs back in the States.

You mean your puppet government did not get militarily dismissed as soon as you took your troops out

No. Where do you get this? "Militarily dismissed?" Of course not. We run the country still, and we did not "take our troops out." When did we "take our troops out?" We took about 50,000 out, but that leaves about 70,000, and we're looking to drop levels to about 50,000. Hardly, "taking our troops out."

after a drawn out war where you lost in casualties

What? 4,000 deaths in 7 years. Please....4,000 can be one or two battles in most other wars.

and morale to a fanatic enemy despite overall strategic superiority?

Yeah. It would be naive to expect zero casualties. Taking casualties doesn't mean you haven't won.

'cause that's about the only way the Iraq debacle

LOL - "debacle" - unless you consider EVERY war to be a debacle.... you'd be hard pressed to find many wars with a greater degree of success and fewer casualties. I guess we should be glad we live in a world where wars can be fought such that the Iraq War is seriously argued by some to be a "debacle." LOL.... I guess you'd argue that the allies lost World War 1 because they took more casualties on the last couple days of the War than the US took in the entire 7 years of the Iraq War.

I'm glad we didn't have folks around like you after Iwo Jima in World War 2 - you'd be railing how the US engaged in a "debacle" because thousands of Americans died to take a tiny, deserted (except for Japanese soldiers) island in the Pacific.....

was any better than the Vietnam (well, maybe the fact that the deployment was smaller scale, which limited the losses?)

And, the fact that the US actually ran an occupation of the entirety of Iraq, and was successful in transitioning the country to a parliamentary form of government? In Vietnam, we abandoned south Vietnam to the north, which invaded, took Saigon, imposed a communist government, and began the usual purge... The US lost 55,000+ men KIA in Vietnam and wound up with nothing to show for it, and allowed Vietnam to be conquered by the Soviet backed communists. Yeah - I'd say there is a big difference.

[Coito ergo sum]

They are measured in courics.

I thought the official units were the coulter and the limbaugh?, oh, and the fox, of course

Maybe in France...but, you folks always did eat a lot of cheese...

[Coito ergo sum]

The Iraq was was a success? You mean your puppet government did not get militarily dismissed as soon as you took your troops out after a drawn out war where you lost in casualties and morale to a fanatic enemy despite overall strategic superiority? 'cause that's about the only way the Iraq debacle was any better than the Vietnam (well, maybe the fact that the deployment was smaller scale, which limited the losses?)

The deployment was about half the size, but our losses were less than a tenth as much. Saddam Hussein was thrown out, and the democratic government we helped establish is still in power, though certainly Obama could possibly still blow it there. Overall, it's basically the best result we could have hoped for, so far, while Viet Nam was close to the worst.

I attribute the difference to the fact that the French weren't involved in Iraq.

And, the French actively supported Hussein by violating the oil-for-food program, and selling weapons materials throughout the 1990s. Most of Iraq's air force was French - Mirage fighter jets and Gazelle helicopters - and throughout the 1990s, Iraq managed to get spare parts and keep them in working order (and the AP reported France even sold these parts to Iraq in 2003). France sold heavy water and missile guidance systems to Iraq in the 1990s, and sold missile systems as late as 2003! France has rivaled China as the world's biggest nuclear proliferator....

Kenneth Timmerman, an expert on the Iraqi nuclear program, noted that the PRC has succeeded France as the most prolific proliferator of nuclear technology.

http://www.nti.org/db/nuclear/1991/n9106883.htm (although France tried to keep up, like, by illegally selling nuclear tech to Pakistan in 1997).

[Clinton Huxley]

My gran could have defeated the Iraqi army. As for selling stuff to nasty regimes, I dont think anyone is squeaky clean there.

[Pensioner]

I am 100% behind the French. Their workers, whether they consciously know it or not, are trying to protect something great about France and that is the notion that work is not life and life is not work. Life is and should be a balance. The world is being increasingly overtaken by international capitalism, which is driving down wages in its relentless pursuit of profit. In that process, as is easily evidenced the rich are getting richer and the poor even poorer. The French 'social culture' is naturally socialist (far more left as a whole than most other non French people realise!) and they rebel at this notion. Its in their DNA!

Tomorrow in the UK the so called comprehensive spending review is announced. Its main purpose is to get the UK back into 'credit worthiness'. The people who got us there in the first place? Workers? The average mortgage slave? No. The people who own most of stuff. Fucking wake up people.

Riot france riot far far far too many countries take shit like this lying down.

I agree with Rum as well, I hope the Unions in the UK grow some French balls.

You know they won't though, right?

I don't know that at all mate. It seems to me that we have at the moment a phony war as far as the cuts are concerned. When the reality of the cuts start to effect working folk all hell will brake loose. In York we have already had a demonstration against the Tory's, Firemen Nurses and public service workers marched yesterday and that's only the start.

"The people who got us there in the first place? Workers? The average mortgage slave? No. The people who own most of stuff. Fucking wake up people." This comment is spot on.

[Coito ergo sum]

My gran could have defeated the Iraqi army.

Bull. and, nobody thought that before the invasion. Doesn't anyone have a memory? It's easy to say that when the US cut through them like a hot knife through butter, but not many countries had the muscle to do what the US and UK did. The UK military is bad ass, too. If there is one thing the Brits know how to do, it's kill motherfuckers. You've been doing it well for 1,000 years or more.

As for selling stuff to nasty regimes, I dont think anyone is squeaky clean there.

Well, some countries get more blame than they deserve. We ought to see who sells the nuclear technology to countries like...ooooo.....North Korea. Is it a coincidence that their G-2 plants are French? Hmmm.... and, do these "nasty countries" drive Abrams tanks, fire M-16's, and fly F-15's? No, of course not...they drive Chinese tanks, French planes and Russian AK-47s. Lost in the "the US is the biggest arms dealer in the world" is the actual statistics of who we actually sell them too. Same with the Brits - you folks don't allow dickheads to fly Harriers and drive Challenger tanks.

[Clinton Huxley]

I believe Bill Hicks did an excellent routine on gulf war 1 about how oversold the "elite republican guard" was

As for the invasion of Iraq I'm not saying it was a doddle but it was men versus boys. Almost ww2 vintage tanks versus Challenger 2s with depleted uranium shells? No contest really.

[Coito ergo sum]

I believe Bill Hicks did an excellent routine on gulf war 1 about how oversold the "elite republican guard" was

As for the invasion of Iraq I'm not saying it was a doddle but it was men versus boys. Almost ww2 vintage tanks versus Challenger 2s with depleted uranium shells? No contest really.

It was no contest FOR US and the UK. There aren't many countries for whom that contest would be quite that one-sided.

[Pappa]

I agree with Rum as well, I hope the Unions in the UK grow some French balls.

You know they won't though, right?

I don't know that at all mate. It seems to me that we have at the moment a phony war as far as the cuts are concerned. When the reality of the cuts start to effect working folk all hell will brake loose. In York we have already had a demonstration against the Tory's, Firemen Nurses and public service workers marched yesterday and that's only the start.

"The people who got us there in the first place? Workers? The average mortgage slave? No. The people who own most of stuff. Fucking wake up people." This comment is spot on.

Well, I really hope you're right.

[Clinton Huxley]

Well you need to separate out capability and performance. With enough resources, a mediocre combatant will defeat a high quality one.

Not sporting, just not sporting