George Galloway

[Trolldor]

lol.

So do you.

[Eriku]

So why did you feel compelled to state that U.S. support of Africa is not as rosy as all that? Rosy as all what? Did you simply feel like leading off in some random direction? Or were you in fact attempting to support Sandinista's original claim?

I felt compelled to do that because you invoked US Aid as a great help to Africa, when it's not even all that helpful.

How do you know it's not all that helpful? Saving millions of lives is not helpful?

Well, if you really want to get technical about it, you're right. Every life saved just adds to the population bomb. Which, in the long run, is going to be anything but helpful.

The link also brings up the protectionism that is in place and which undermines all these efforts, and how a lot of it is just credit which means the money goes back to US Corporations."

The Africans don't get what they bought with the credits? Don't lie to me, boy. Don't even spin.

If they were paid in cash, the despots would simply stuff the cash in Swiss bank accounts.

I am sure you would prefer that the goods were purchased from skinflint foreigners, so they could benefit from it instead of the Americans. But unfortunately, you don't always get exactly what your wisened little heart desires. Tough, ain't it.

But I guess that's the same as me stating that "in the beginning, the US fucked up Africa, and Bush saw that it was good".

Actually, it is the same as you supporting Sandinista's Amerika-bashing any way you could, and clouding the issue any way you could when Sandinista falsely claimed the U.S. fucked up Africa.

You're grasping at straws if you're accusing me of cutting you off when you invoke aid as a good thing and I merely point to, as well as substantiate that it is very much a double-edged sword.

No, it's more like, when you saw me reaching for Sandinista's chips that he had bet on a non-sequitur and a false dichotomy, you pulled out a meat cleaver and tried to chop my hand off. Because you just couldn't stand it.

But the meat cleaver was made of rubber.

Well, it's been fun, but I can tell that this is a stalemate and that I'm only to get grief for trying to put forward my views to you.

Well, you did the best you could to cloud the issue (pat pat). You seized that Africa bone and hung on to it for a long time. That old bone has your determined teeth marks all over it. You should be very...well, I hesitate to say "proud of youself", because I frankly can't imagine what you might have accomplished, other than a show of finger-pointing stubbornness.

You know, if you wanted to harangue the U.S. for not giving enough aid to Africa, you could have started a thread about it. You didn't need to lurk about, waiting for someone to mention the subject before leaping in to seize the long-awaited opportunity. Just start a freaking thread about it. Then you can bitch all day long.

And you know, there is nothing stopping you from donating whatever percentage of your income you think is fair. That's how Americans do it. They don't wait for the government to tax it out of them. They pony up voluntarily.

Charity begins and ends with you, dude. You won't succeed in badgering others into giving it up.

You're the one who's taking statements and spinning them to fit your own agenda. I embrace the futility of this discussion now, and I would like to add a bunny as a suitable full-stop.

[Eriku]

Goodness me! And I thought there could be only one George Bush!!

You only just meeting Toontown are you? I've known him since RDF's glory days, some comedy gold on there.

You lot should really take more care of your newbies and point out that there's actually physically no way of actually having Toontown concede a point. I've been labouring under false hopes for a while in this thread ;P

[sandinista]

haha, don't try to get toontown to concede anything! Just enjoy the humor. I look at it this way, if he disagrees with you, insults you, or says you're points are shit or whatever, feel good about it! Can' t be a better justification for a post than toontown disagreeing with it. Also mistermack, good posts, its easy to see what you're saying, don't feel a need to backpedal or try to "defend" yourself, not that I really think you are. Empathizing or looking at things in their proper context is valid. Being labeled an "apologist" in this sense is meaningless. Its only fired at you because white americans were the attackees not the attackers. I have read people try to justify everything from hiroshema to vietnam to panama, iraq, grenada, el salvador, etc and have seen no one label them as "apologists". It comes down to belief in propaganda, a very good example here on this thread.."they hate us for our freedom". Which says, "hey, we (american) are innocent we did nothing to anyone ever, they only attack us because we are so great". Nonsense.

[mistermack]

haha, don't try to get toontown to concede anything! Just enjoy the humor. I look at it this way, if he disagrees with you, insults you, or says you're points are shit or whatever, feel good about it! Can' t be a better justification for a post than toontown disagreeing with it. Also mistermack, good posts, its easy to see what you're saying, don't feel a need to backpedal or try to "defend" yourself, not that I really think you are. Empathizing or looking at things in their proper context is valid. Being labeled an "apologist" in this sense is meaningless. Its only fired at you because white americans were the attackees not the attackers. I have read people try to justify everything from hiroshema to vietnam to panama, iraq, grenada, el salvador, etc and have seen no one label them as "apologists". It comes down to belief in propaganda, a very good example here on this thread.."they hate us for our freedom". Which says, "hey, we (american) are innocent we did nothing to anyone ever, they only attack us because we are so great". Nonsense.

Yeh, apologist is a funny word. That's why people use it as an accusation. You rarely hear people proudly claiming to be an apologist. It sounds like apologise, as if there's some guilt mixed in somewhere.

It's not really a word I use, I suppose I just took The Mad Hatter's bait.

I think he should be made an honory American, as he says he ain't one. He certainly sees everything as black or white, like a good american.
Apologist means you defend it. I did that, but made it perfectly clear in what way. ie, saying it's no worse than this or that.
It seems he can only understand full support of something, or full opposition.

Like I said, I think he watches too many american movies.
.