British folk across the pond, question for you:

Coito ergo sum
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Re: British folk across the pond, question for you:

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:20 pm

The Red Fox wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
ED209 wrote:Since the special relationship consisted largely of us bending over and grabbing our ankles, I'm rather pleased if the cooling of relations means this will no longer happen as much. Maybe we'll get to rip up the entirely one-sided extradition treaty too.
I'm interested - as I noted above, I had no idea that this was the perception that Brits have of the US, that we're fucking you up the ass.

Could you expand on that a little? What has the US done to the UK that would be described as making the UK bend over and grab its ankles?
In my time the Iraq war and Afghanistan certainly did it for most people in the country. These wars had little support at the outset,
Afghanistan at the outset: "When the invasion began in October 2001, polls indicated that about 88% of Americans and about 65% of Britons backed military action in Afghanistan" (America and the War on Terror". AEI Public Opinion Study. Retrieved September 27, 2007. Published July 24, 2008)

Iraq at the outset: British support for the war in the beginning of the war was over 50%. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... plJo2RekjQ
The Red Fox wrote: we were more vocal with our government than we'd been since, I would argue, the Chartists marched on London. Yet, we were still ignored by our politicians who favoured America over the electorate.
Well, the electorate certainly were in favor of the Afghan war, and about 1/2 were in favor of the Iraq war, so I'm not sure you're right that the electorate were ignored. Certainly, the opposition did not win the day.

I think that your government at the time thought that both were the right thing to do. The Tories were in favor of it, and the Labour government was in favor of it, based on the view at the time that something clearly needed to be done in Afghanistan, and that the Iraq regime simply was too much of a loose cannon and too untrustworthy to be allowed to remain (given its failure to comply with a series of UN resolutions, etc.).

From my perspective, having watched matters unfold from this side of the Atlantic, I saw a sincere solidarity between the US and the UK. I saw the UK come forward, both its people and its leaders, and tell the United States (and, therefore, me as a citizen) that it considered the 9/11/01 attacks not only an attack against the US but also an attack against the UK, and that the UK would stand "shoulder to shoulder" with the US during the coming fight. I recall being personally impressed by that, because it was different in character from what any other country said. It was something I felt strongly about at the time.
The Red Fox wrote:
The US clearly has far too much influence over our politicians when they become more accountable to Washington than the British public.
It's still not clear to me how they are accountable to the US. They aren't being held accountable now, when the "special relationship" is said to be cooling.
The Red Fox wrote:
American foreign policy overruled our democracy (or what we have which is supposed to pass for democracy anyway...), it was a foreign policy we did not support and we feel fucked over by that.
Except, it looks like from the stats at the time, in 2001 and 2003, a supermajority favored intervention in Afghanistan, and about an equal split favored and opposed Iraq.

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Geoff
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Re: British folk across the pond, question for you:

Post by Geoff » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:20 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:What's your perception of the Obama administration in terms of the "special relationship" between the US and UK?
We don't really take much notice of foreigners. :dono:
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