Lisbon Treaty Fully Ratified - Democracy Dies

[devogue]

In 2005 the Labour party promised a the UK public a referendum on the then "Constitutional Treaty":

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/P ... ifesto.pdf (p42 of 56)

In 2005 this treaty was rejected by the Dutch and the French. A "period of reflection" followed before the Treaty of Lisbon was drawn up.

Now, I don't want to get in to the detail of the treaties but it seems to me that the British government lied to its people and that public opinion was roundly ignored on the whole issue. Again, I don't want to debate whether public opinion was right or wrong, it is just clear that the British public had severe concerns and reservations about the Lisbon Treaty and they were royally shit upon by their leaders.

Ordinarily, I would argue that referenda are superfluous, our leaders are elected to do a job, but in this case it seems that the issue was even more important than which political party is in power at Westminster. As our leaders are chosen by referendum (also known as a "General Election") it is clear that a referendum was the right course of action regarding the Lisbon Treaty.

The denial of democracy is staggering.

[Drewish]

One Government to rule them all, One Government to find them,
One Government to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Europe where the Shadows lie.

[Animavore]

Meh. Democracy is over-rated.

Bring back monarchy.

[Pappa]

Well, we knew it was going to happen anyway. If we didn't want them to do it, we shouldn't have voted them in.... or should have protested in the streets at our lack of referendum. I can only surmise that the people of the UK don't care enough either way, so didn't bother marching or rioting.

[klr]

Well, we knew it was going to happen anyway. If we didn't want them to do it, we shouldn't have voted them in.... or should have protested in the streets at our lack of referendum. I can only surmise that the people of the UK don't care enough either way, so didn't bother marching or rioting.

Exactly. But if you really want to protest about it, there's an election in a few months ...

[Pappa]

Well, we knew it was going to happen anyway. If we didn't want them to do it, we shouldn't have voted them in.... or should have protested in the streets at our lack of referendum. I can only surmise that the people of the UK don't care enough either way, so didn't bother marching or rioting.

Exactly. But if you really want to protest about it, there's an election in a few months ...

As a thought experiment, I wonder what the Tories would have done.

[Drewish]

Well, we knew it was going to happen anyway. If we didn't want them to do it, we shouldn't have voted them in.... or should have protested in the streets at our lack of referendum. I can only surmise that the people of the UK don't care enough either way, so didn't bother marching or rioting.

Exactly. But if you really want to protest about it, there's an election in a few months ...

As a thought experiment, I wonder what the Tories would have done.

Told the EU to go f themselves, being painted as an extremist party in the process by the multicultural lefties. This thing is kind of like gay marriage in the US. No matter how many times the people vote it down, they just keep bringing it back up and using the courts to get around it. nobody cares what the people want. Nobody actually believes in the wisdom of the crowds. They just say they do because if you say otherwise then you instantly become unpopular.

[klr]

Well, we knew it was going to happen anyway. If we didn't want them to do it, we shouldn't have voted them in.... or should have protested in the streets at our lack of referendum. I can only surmise that the people of the UK don't care enough either way, so didn't bother marching or rioting.

Exactly. But if you really want to protest about it, there's an election in a few months ...

As a thought experiment, I wonder what the Tories would have done.

Actually, I think this gets them out of a potentially tricky situation. Now they can't squabble amongst themselves about this, which could have been very divisive for them. They can now just throw their hands up and say "nothing we could do, we weren't in power, we would have had a referendum - blame Labour". What anti-Europe moves they might still make - who knows?

[devogue]

Well, we knew it was going to happen anyway. If we didn't want them to do it, we shouldn't have voted them in.... or should have protested in the streets at our lack of referendum. I can only surmise that the people of the UK don't care enough either way, so didn't bother marching or rioting.

Exactly. But if you really want to protest about it, there's an election in a few months ...

As a thought experiment, I wonder what the Tories would have done.

Indeed. Cameron talked a good game about putting the treaty to referendum if it hadn't been ratified, knowing full well it would be. Now he is saying it's time to move on and there's nothing we can do - like Maastricht it will recede to the back of the public's imagination and the people will just grumble and get on with it.

What Cameron should have done was said "Fuck the ratification, we're going to have a vote anyway, and if you don't like it in Brussels then fuck off" but like all the others he's a spineless fuck playing the game.

[Pappa]

Well, we knew it was going to happen anyway. If we didn't want them to do it, we shouldn't have voted them in.... or should have protested in the streets at our lack of referendum. I can only surmise that the people of the UK don't care enough either way, so didn't bother marching or rioting.

Exactly. But if you really want to protest about it, there's an election in a few months ...

As a thought experiment, I wonder what the Tories would have done.

Told the EU to go f themselves, being painted as an extremist party in the process by the multicultural lefties. This thing is kind of like gay marriage in the US. No matter how many times the people vote it down, they just keep bringing it back up and using the courts to get around it. nobody cares what the people want. Nobody actually believes in the wisdom of the crowds. They just say they do because if you say otherwise then you instantly become unpopular.

Actually, I assume they would have done the same as Labour. Quietly signed up without any fuss, possibly even creating some other fuss to mask the potential fuss caused by this fuss. They are scared of taking a staunchly anti-Europe line, both parties are scared of either extreme, so they dither and do anything they can to avoid unwrapping the public's opinion on Europe for fear of where it might take us (either way).

[Drewish]

Oh sorry. You said the Tories I thought you said the BNP.

[Pappa]

Oh sorry. You said the Tories I thought you said the BNP.

Well, they'd never get in, but yeah if they did they'd probably do something like what you said.

[Trolldor]

Speaking of which...

http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/200 ... 51255.html