The BNP may appear on BBC's Question Time

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Also.... can anyone actually imagine the BNP ever getting a significant share of the vote? I can't, not unless we have some kind of apocalypse.

Adolf Hitler never received a majority of the vote in any free election. His party's best showing was a bit less than 30%, IIRC. Kevin?

No but, not only would the BNP never get that close anyway, I'm pretty sure people would remember the history too much to let it repeat. As much as I hate the "Anti-Nazi League" (as left-wing fascists) I am glad they remind everyone that the BNP are racist fascist scum.

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

[Pappa]

Also.... can anyone actually imagine the BNP ever getting a significant share of the vote? I can't, not unless we have some kind of apocalypse.

Adolf Hitler never received a majority of the vote in any free election. His party's best showing was a bit less than 30%, IIRC. Kevin?

No but, not only would the BNP never get that close anyway, I'm pretty sure people would remember the history too much to let it repeat. As much as I hate the "Anti-Nazi League" (as left-wing fascists) I am glad they remind everyone that the BNP are racist fascist scum.

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

I think Hitler's still a bit fresh, even after all these years.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

I think Hitler's still a bit fresh, even after all these years.

That would be nice, but how many of "the people" know how Hitler got into power? It wasn't an election.

[Pappa]

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

I think Hitler's still a bit fresh, even after all these years.

That would be nice, but how many of "the people" know how Hitler got into power? It wasn't an election.

I don't know. I always thought they were voted in.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

I think Hitler's still a bit fresh, even after all these years.

That would be nice, but how many of "the people" know how Hitler got into power? It wasn't an election.

I don't know. I always thought they were voted in.

von Papen assured Hindenburg that he could control Hitler. One man guaranteed another that the little corporal would be no problem.

[JimC]

Also.... can anyone actually imagine the BNP ever getting a significant share of the vote? I can't, not unless we have some kind of apocalypse.

Adolf Hitler never received a majority of the vote in any free election. His party's best showing was a bit less than 30%, IIRC. Kevin?

No but, not only would the BNP never get that close anyway, I'm pretty sure people would remember the history too much to let it repeat. As much as I hate the "Anti-Nazi League" (as left-wing fascists) I am glad they remind everyone that the BNP are racist fascist scum.

I wish they could do it without being violence-loving street thugs...

[Rum]

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

I think Hitler's still a bit fresh, even after all these years.

That would be nice, but how many of "the people" know how Hitler got into power? It wasn't an election.

I don't know. I always thought they were voted in.

No - this is a common misconception. In fact the Nazi share of the vote dropped in 1932 from the election before (can't remember the date of that one). There was no overall government with a mandate and Hindenburg was governing by decree. The country was in a total shambles and a state of near collapse. The current chancellor had the confidence of nobody, so Hindenburg invited Hitler to be vice-chancellor. He refused and said he was only take the job of chancellor - which he was given. The rest is history as they say. He forced his way to the dictatorship from there with the help of propaganda, thuggery, the power of his own public charisma and huge financial support from industrialists (including Ford in America incidentally).

The current situation in the UK is so totally different and barring some further collapse of the financial system, so unlikely to be remotely in the chaotic state of Germany in the late 20s and thirties that one can't really compare. People are also much better informed of course. That may be something some people would dismiss out of hand, but I don't think one should. And Griffin is no Hitler - just an ignorant nasty little man.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...And Griffin is no Hitler...

Griffin is no Hitler? Griffin is not even an Oswald Mosley!


In fact Griffin is not even a Max Mosley, although I bet he'd secretly love to be tied-up by muslim prostitutes and...

[klr]

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

I think Hitler's still a bit fresh, even after all these years.

That would be nice, but how many of "the people" know how Hitler got into power? It wasn't an election.

Mel Brooks put it best:

We had an election
well, kinda sorta
And before you knew it "hello New Order" ...

[Chauncey Gardner]

I never trust "the people" to remember history. Remember, I'm a historian.

I think Hitler's still a bit fresh, even after all these years.

That would be nice, but how many of "the people" know how Hitler got into power? It wasn't an election.

I don't know. I always thought they were voted in.

No - this is a common misconception. In fact the Nazi share of the vote dropped in 1932 from the election before (can't remember the date of that one). There was no overall government with a mandate and Hindenburg was governing by decree. The country was in a total shambles and a state of near collapse. The current chancellor had the confidence of nobody, so Hindenburg invited Hitler to be vice-chancellor. He refused and said he was only take the job of chancellor - which he was given. The rest is history as they say. He forced his way to the dictatorship from there with the help of propaganda, thuggery, the power of his own public charisma and huge financial support from industrialists (including Ford in America incidentally).

The current situation in the UK is so totally different and barring some further collapse of the financial system, so unlikely to be remotely in the chaotic state of Germany in the late 20s and thirties that one can't really compare. People are also much better informed of course. That may be something some people would dismiss out of hand, but I don't think one should. And Griffin is no Hitler - just an ignorant nasty little man.

I agree...Griffin is no hitler.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that one of the downsides of question time is that people think this is the guy who represents "Fascism UK". He doesn't. Contemporary fascism is much more sophisticated than it was back in the 1930s and I think people are making a massive mistake when they "look for parallels" with nazi germany. My point is Griffin represents a jaded and ye-olde-worlde style of fascism that is the opposite of subtle and very difficult to disguise. He doesn't have the intellect to advance that beyond deeply bigoted and racist ignoramuses.

We need to look at UKIP, the Pirate party, Front National in France, libertas (a failed political party that is regrouping in europe) or the alliances the conservatives are developing across europe (in eastern europe in particular) to find a contemporary form of fascism that is palatable with broadcasters and voters alike.

[Pappa]

We need to look at UKIP, the Pirate party, Front National in France, libertas (a failed political party that is regrouping in europe) or the alliances the conservatives are developing across europe (in eastern europe in particular) to find a contemporary form of fascism that is palatable with broadcasters and voters alike.

They're not fascist are they?

[Chauncey Gardner]

We need to look at UKIP, the Pirate party, Front National in France, libertas (a failed political party that is regrouping in europe) or the alliances the conservatives are developing across europe (in eastern europe in particular) to find a contemporary form of fascism that is palatable with broadcasters and voters alike.

They're not fascist are they?

Here's a link to their manifesto (english) http://docs.piratpartiet.se/Principles%203.2.pdf

What that doesn't mention is that Carl Lundström, one of their main backers (he's currently bankrolling 100 candidates for the Swedish equivalent of the BNP) was linked to a gang of skinheads that attacked Latin American tourists in Stockholm in the mid-1980s. [Expo.se report (Swe) - 2005]. Since then, Lundström switched his support from Keep Sweden Swedish to the far-right headbangers party New Democracy - but was thrown out for being too right wing.

It's plausible that Lundström is a reformed character and is no longer deeply racist and dropped his fascist tendancies, but, somehow I doubt it. His involvement with the Pirate bay website in Sweden (he was one of the main shareholders and financiers) has succeeded in a flurry of anti-piracy legislation being drafted across europe that impinges on anonymity and has all but shattered the rights of artists, musicians and creatives....not forgetting the rights of the millions of people who thought it was fair to give something back for music/video downloads.

It's like I said earlier....there's a new, more sophisticated, form of fascism being peddled in europe...much more sophisticated than the likes of the BNP. I would rank the pirate party to be part of that group....the supporters of which are mainly 18/19 year old kids who are being used as muppets.