The US Healthcare Mass Debate

[Tero]

[Tero]

No more aborting even dead fetuses.
https://www.threads.com/@apnews/post/DK ... 11G686Xhkg

[Tero]

But we don't want socialism. We want "good care."
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Europeans- ... ype=answer

[Sean Hayden]

I spent ~8,000 for health insurance last year. That was just mine. If I think about what we spent for everyone again imma lose my shit. —plus taxes, kiss my ass

[Sean Hayden]

The important bit being that much of the money we freedom lovers spend is for the privilege of hopefully being helped by insurance at some point in the future; provided the stars align, it's not a second Tuesday, it's the Blue Plus Plan option #2, nothing from lines 6-10, and we can prove that before today we've always been able to stand on one leg for at least 30 seconds. In the meantime, that'll be $1200 today and the remaining balance can be paid at $169 monthly till paid in full.

It's crazy that we aren't willing to pay even a little more to get something better.

[Brian Peacock]

The Netherlands has an insurance market similar to what Obamacare was intended to be - the only difference being that there's a regulatory barrier between clinicians and the insurers. Everyone has to have insurance, but if you can't afford it the state covers the cost. And if the doctor says you need to fly first class to Tahiti to have your bad back covered in warm oils and then walked on by tiny-feeted ladies, the insurance company has to cover it. Same as if they say you need this otherwise very expensive cancer treatment. Everyone gets the same level of basic cover that basically covers everything, and you can top it up to have a few more days off work, or to recuperate in a nice spa, or to have your prostate exam at home, or for your physical checkup to include more tests etc. And do you know what? The insurance companies still make an absolutely huge amount of money because the vast majority of people are not unwell the vast majority of the time. And do you know what they do with that money? You'll never believe it. They pass it on to the people they insure in the form of lower premiums. Imagine that!

https://english.zorginstituutnederland. ... etherlands

[L'Emmerdeur]

Enough, please stop. It's painful to be subjected to the horrors of socialism, even vicariously.

[Svartalf]

come dwell in Red Europe

[JimC]

Or the People's Republic of Victoria...

[Brian Peacock]

Enough, please stop. It's painful to be subjected to the horrors of socialism, even vicariously.

Now imagine that the state is the insurance company and your health premium is taken straight from your wages. You could call it something like 'national insurance' and ringfence it for health and social care, and the growing pot of money wouldn't be returned to citizens by lowering the insurance rate but in the form of more hospitals and community care facilities, training more nurses and doctors, and covering wider ranges of treatments and services.

That's how the UKs system was set up, but along the way somebody decided that the pot of gold built up from national insurance could be used by govt to cover expenditure elsewhere or to offset cuts in general taxation. And then someone decided that what the system really needed was a raft of private middle men who could 'improve' things by syphoning the gains away to tax havens by employing novel 'efficiency saving' practices like slashing staffing levels, restricting treatments and services, and reducing capital investment. Finally it was decided that some people could pay a bit more insurance (this time to a private insurer) and they would be allowed to jump the queue, even if their level of clinical need was less pressing than other, poorer people.

That's the system we have been developing for the last 30 years or so, with a few bells and whistles like the govt paying for the underlying infrastructure and underwriting the running costs--maintaining asset value as the economists like to say--and the middle men holding onto all the operational gains and determining the mix and level of services on offer. Ultimately the hope is that by the govt continuing to cover things like staff training, equipment and building maintenance etc, even as the level of service degrades towards whatever is most profitable for the middle man to provide, then moving to a fully private system begins to look more and more appealing by the day - particularly to voters who have to wait 3 months to see a GP, or 18 months to see a specialist, or 5 years to simply register with a dentist.

Hopefully that's a little less painful to swallow - a little less of a socialist nightmare for you?

[pErvinalia]

Dutch healthcare is the best hea...