The Trump Impeachment

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Seabass » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:46 pm

It's literally in the constitution. It's legitimate by virtue of being part of the founding documents of our nation.
legitimate[ adjective, noun li-jit-uh-mit; verb li-jit-uh-meyt ]
adjective
according to law; lawful:
the property's legitimate owner.
in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/legitimate
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:31 pm

What? Did you just give me the "it is fucking written" argument?

Legitimacy isn't something you achieve by fiat, regardless of whose authority you claim.

Its legitimacy is dependent upon much more.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:34 pm

I get it. It's like hat Missouri politician that talked about legitimate rape.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:35 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:31 pm
What? Did you just give me the "it is fucking written" argument?

Legitimacy isn't something you achieve by fiat, regardless of whose authority you claim.

Its legitimacy is dependent upon much more.
The constitution says it's legitimate. Do you have some higher authority to judge it than that? :think: Or, what's "much more"?
Last edited by pErvinalia on Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:36 pm

Also consider that just because it's political doesn't mean it's not also what's best for the nation. The two can overlap.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:52 pm

I've given two components which would lend the process legitimacy. Its ability to contest the question adequately, and our confidence in that ability.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:54 pm

Tero wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:34 pm
I get it. It's like hat Missouri politician that talked about legitimate rape.
:funny:
What's funny is you're the political one, yet you can't have a political discussion.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:56 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:52 pm
I've given two components which would lend the process legitimacy. Its ability to contest the question adequately, and our confidence in that ability.
What do you think is inadequate about it?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:01 pm

Have you listened to it? One side is completely unable to do its job and there is apparently nothing in place to force them to do it. It is possible to demand more of those who question the witnesses ya know.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:02 pm

Impeach the motherfucker! All the staff will bail and come in to give testimony in 2021 when Trump's criminal trial comes up.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:11 pm

The Republican party is rotten, floating on the cesspit of Fox News/right-wing talk radio/Breitbart etc. and clinging to power through bad faith actions. They've grown ever more shameless since Newt Gingrich and his posse of dirtbags changed the Republican playbook. The Democratic party is better by comparison (not saying much, I know), but is largely incapable of dealing with the Republican's willingness to trash the system that has more or less worked to govern the US, to ignore long established norms of conduct and to adopt whatever lie that comes out of Dear Leader's burger hole.

I don't think that it's the fault of the system when one of the two main parties is willing to essentially throw the social contract out the window. I don't know that there is any system that has a means to cope with such a situation.

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by JimC » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:13 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:31 pm
What? Did you just give me the "it is fucking written" argument?

Legitimacy isn't something you achieve by fiat, regardless of whose authority you claim.

Its legitimacy is dependent upon much more.
It really depends on the semantics of legitimate. A process like the current impeachment can be legitimate in a formal sense, while still being deeply flawed for a variety of reasons.

So, Sean, rather than quibble about a word, maybe we could discuss the flaws. For me, they seem to fall into 2 categories:

1. The sense that the process seems rather pointless, since it seems extremely unlikely that a Republican-controlled Senate will vote to convict.

2. An impression that the impeachment hearings have simply become another example of the partisan, point-scoring circus that seems to dominate current US politics.

The fact that Trump has clearly engaged in deeply unethical behaviour remains, and it may well technically warrant impeachment. However, it may not actually assist in the chances of defeating Trump in 2020...
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Woodbutcher » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:07 am

There is no right or wrong in American politics. Only us and them. It's all partisan politics irrespective of any morality.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:34 am

Well, it won't be totally useless if the house gets to vote and that alone gives Trump a heart attack!
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:46 am

Sean's impeachment thinking is that we should never start any impeachment unless the votes are there in the senate to impeach.

My thinking is that it has never hurt a party to impeach. If the president is crooked, the house has (or had) the power to investigate and expose him for what he is. Maybe there are some independents that need to know.
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