Goings-on in North Korea

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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by mistermack » Fri May 25, 2018 1:40 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:33 am
No, they literally can't fund themselves sometimes (because they can't agree on passing a supply budget), and have to shutdown most government agencies.
That's a bit like saying Bill Gates was unable to pay a parking ticket, because he didn't agree with it.
A little bit misleading.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by pErvinalia » Fri May 25, 2018 2:04 am

Whatever the cause, the outcome is the same, though. In fact, it's even more farcical, as your Bill Gates analogy shows. The government could easily fund itself if it wanted to.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Joe » Fri May 25, 2018 4:52 am

I suspect Trump was played by John Bolton, his warmonger national security adviser.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Forty Two » Fri May 25, 2018 7:07 am

North Korea issued a statement Friday saying it is still "willing to give the U.S. time and opportunities" to reconsider talks "at any time, at any format."

Vice Foreign Minister Kim Kye Gwan called Trump's decision "unexpected" and "very regrettable," and said the cancellation of the talks shows "how grave the status of historically deep-rooted hostile North Korea-U.S. relations is and how urgently a summit should be realized to improve ties."

Kim insisted North Korea's "objective and resolve to do our best for the sake of peace and stability of the Korean Peninsula and all humankind remain unchanged."
http://www.startribune.com/trump-cancel ... 483584201/

Now this is an interesting response from NoKo. No more threats and such. It's a message to the US and the world, that NoKo really wants talks. NoKo started expressing a position that talks would start without an expectation of denuclearization.
Japan says it understands President Donald Trump's cancellation of the summit with the North Korean leader. Top officials there say talks should be held when progress on the North's denuclearization is achieved.
Pompeo, testifying on Capitol Hill, said North Korea had not responded to repeated requests from U.S. officials to discuss logistics for the summit. He told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee the lack of response was an additional reason for Trump's decision.

"We got a lot of dial tones, Senator," he told committee chairman Bob Corker.
Pompeo said the North's posture had changed markedly since he returned from Pyongyang earlier this month, a trip during which he met with Kim and oversaw the release of three Americans being held. Trump suggested this week that China was to blame for "a little change" in Kim's attitude. Kim paid a secret visit to his primary ally just before Pompeo's visit, and China is wary of any shift in the balance of power on the Korean peninsula.

Trump's allies in Congress applauded the president, saying he was justified in pulling out of the meeting.

"North Korea has a long history of demanding concessions merely to negotiate. While past administrations of both parties have fallen for this ruse, I commend the president for seeing through Kim Jong Un's fraud," said Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark.

Critics were less impressed.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said it was clear Trump "didn't know what he was getting into and now he's walking away" in a "very chummy, palsy-walsy letter" that's "kind of like a valentine to Kim Jong Un."

White House officials have privately predicted for weeks that the summit could be canceled once or twice before actually taking place
.

North Korea itself made threats to cancel the meeting and said it doesn’t plan to give up its nuclear weapons program, which is the entire purpose of the meeting.

Cutting through all the smoke, I think that's why Trump canceled the meeting, but left a loving overture on the table, saying Kim can come back to the table once they change their mind. Then North Korea responded with very soft words in return, regretting the cancelation and saying how important it was. Now, NoKo needs to communicate that it denuclearization will be part of the deal.

That, to me, makes the most sense. Trump doesn't want to go to the talks to have a peace treaty which leaves NoKo with nukes. He wants NoKo to roll over on that. He has communicated that he's willing to pay handsomely for that, promising great prosperity to Kim if he will roll over on that issue.

The stage was set for a disaster, if Trump went to the talks and came away with less than denuclearization. So, that's where I hold out hope that the talks will be restarted. The US already gained concessions from NoKo - destruction of the nuke facility - release of prisoners - etc. And, the US sends a message of willingness to walk away. It's a gamble here, and one that may or may not pay off, but if Kim blinks, and comes back to the table, it's essentially with "hat in hand" looking to negotiate the price of denuclearization, and not whether it occurs at all.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by pErvinalia » Fri May 25, 2018 8:39 am

Forty Two wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:07 am
North Korea itself made threats to cancel the meeting and said it doesn’t plan to give up its nuclear weapons program, which is the entire purpose of the meeting.
I thought the purpose of the meeting was to get the Donald a Nobel Peace Prize... :tea:
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by cronus » Fri May 25, 2018 9:13 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:39 am
Forty Two wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:07 am
North Korea itself made threats to cancel the meeting and said it doesn’t plan to give up its nuclear weapons program, which is the entire purpose of the meeting.
I thought the purpose of the meeting was to get the Donald a Nobel Peace Prize... :tea:
I thought it was a cage fight with the doors sealed forever shut, making everyone across the world a winner.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Tyrannical » Fri May 25, 2018 9:32 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:39 am
Forty Two wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:07 am
North Korea itself made threats to cancel the meeting and said it doesn’t plan to give up its nuclear weapons program, which is the entire purpose of the meeting.
I thought the purpose of the meeting was to get the Donald a Nobel Peace Prize... :tea:
Kim's boom or bust: North Korea responds to Trump's call for 'action' with video they claim shows the demolition of a nuclear test site after urging U.S. to rethink summit cancellation, offering to meet 'any time, any way'
North Korea reacts for the first time to President Trump's cancellation of summit with Kim Jong-Un
Cancellation came after Pyongyang carried out a series of explosions at a nuclear test site
Demolition of Punggye-ri test site was witnessed by foreign journalists, including Americans and Brits
The extent of destruction of the underground facility has not yet been confirmed
South Korean President Moon Jae-in said he was 'very perplexed' over canceled summit


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z5GVJml8Zz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Looks like 'very stable genius' Trump made the right move, Kim blinked and ran back to the table.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by pErvinalia » Fri May 25, 2018 10:30 am

Don't count your racists before they hatch..
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Animavore » Fri May 25, 2018 11:03 am

Hilary wouldn't be in this position right now. She wouldn't have allowed herself get trolled by Kim and walked into his trap.

But millions of Americans would rather have voted for a weak, pissant man for a President than a woman.

Look at you now with egg on your face. :hilarious:
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Svartalf » Fri May 25, 2018 2:04 pm

aaaand I hear he says he might still attend the Singapore summit... flip flopping like that about his reserved domain of foreign policy is even worse than li'l kim's tyrannical outbursts... I don't know what kind of a head of state I would be, but I can tell firmly that I'm fitter for the post of president than he is, even though I'm a native born Canadian, not American.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Joe » Sat May 26, 2018 4:56 am

I'm sure he's playing a deep, subtle game. Or maybe not.
Trump wanted to cancel North Korea summit before Kim Jong Un could
The president was caught between Pompeo and Bolton, say multiple officials.

Early Thursday morning, after a flurry of calls with a handful of senior advisers, an angry President Donald Trump personally dictated the three-paragraph letter to North Korean leader Kim Jong Un that canceled the scheduled summit between their two nations.

It had been less than 12 hours since Trump and his team began grappling intensely with the prospects for shelving what would have been a historic meeting between the two heads of state.

"There was no hint of this yesterday," a person briefed on the summit preparations said, calling Trump's decision "high risk, high reward."

...

The decision occurred so abruptly that the administration was unable to give congressional leaders and key allies advance notice and the letter went out while more than two dozen foreign journalists, including several U.S. citizens, were inside North Korea where they had gone to witness a promised dismantling of a nuclear test site. At 8:20 a.m., the State Department sent a note to reporters touting the positive discussions that Pompeo was having with Asian counterparts in preparation for the summit.

The move exposed significant disagreements among the president's top advisers. Several administration officials said Pompeo, who has taken the lead in negotiating with the North Koreans, blamed Bolton for torpedoing the progress that had already been made. Pompeo flew to Pyongyang twice, met personally with Kim and helped secure the release of three Americans who had been held there. Bolton, a longtime national security hawk who has publicly advocated for regime change in North Korea, was integral, these officials said, to convincing Trump to back out of the summit.
Yeah, that sounds more like I'd expect.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 26, 2018 5:09 am

The clown show carries on...
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Seabass » Sat May 26, 2018 5:19 am

Fuckin' Bolton. That was predictable. This administration is so fucked up that Mike fucking Pompeo is the voice of reason.
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Joe » Sat May 26, 2018 12:40 pm

Yeah, Crazy Train Bolton thinks the solution to all our problems is another war or two. What's so dangerous about these wackos is how they make the G. W. Bush era neocons look like elder statesmen.

I was listening to an interview with Bill Kristol , the guy who founded The Weekly Standard. I had to remind myself, this guy used to be considered batshit. Now, he sounds like the voice of reason. :sulk:
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Re: Goings-on in North Korea

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 28, 2018 5:43 pm

This really is very simple, and people are losing the forest for the trees. The off-and-then-on routine was for one purpose only - to get Kim back to the point where he is openly committing to "denuclearization" of the peninsula. Kim started dicking around, and backed off his denuclearization pledge, so Trump gave him a quick "fuck you, then" and canceled the meeting (making the point loud-and-clear that the talks are about how to denuclearize, not whether to denuclearize). And, once that happened, you saw Kim come back to the table kissing ass like a champ, and then he meets all huggy-kissy again with Moon (ROK), and then Trump comes back all lovey-dovey saying that the DPRK has soooo much potential, and can be super-rich and prosperous, if it comes to the table to denuclearize.

So, the talks are not "officially" back on, but they are "off" while at the same time all efforts and preparations are being made for them to occur. I.e., Trump has put Kim in the position that the talks are off, but Kim really really wants the talks. They will only occur as long as Kim doesn't fuck around again.

The rest is window-dressing, and a bunch of desk-jockeys who think they know how to motivate people and get what they want. Trump knows what Kim wants. As a businessman, he'll give Kim what he wants, if Trump gets what he wants. Trump is not going to do any deal, if Trump does not get what he wants. The rest becomes "who wants it more?" Trump is in a no lose situation. Expectations in the media are super-low - they have postured him as an incompetent boob who can't negotiate his way out of a paper bag -- and if the talk doesn't go through, then the status quo doesn't change at all. If it goes forward, and Trump gets a "roadmap" to "denuclearization", the incompetent boob will have achieved what the fantastically competent and super-intelligent "smartest-guy-in-the-room" respected by all of our allies guys couldn't do for generations.

Quite a feather in his cap, with zero downside. Zero. Well, as long as we don't have a war. Then there's a problem, so, there's that.
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