Guitar people

[Gallstones]

Why are they called 7ths and 9ths?

There are 7 notes in a major scale. The root note of the scale uses the first, third and fifth notes.

The seventh chord uses the 7th note as well (except it doesn't - quite!)

Actually, it is derived from the major chord on the fifth note of the scale and uses the 7th note of that progression.

So, in a C Major scale, the C chord is C-E-G, the 5th chord (G) is G-B-D and the 5th7 chord (G7) is G-B-D-F.

Ack, this is already over my head.
I'm going to have to do some hard thinking to grasp this. With regards to the guitar, I am a kinesthetic learner.

The closeness of the G and F notes in the chord create a discord that the ear wants to resolve - this happens when the C major chord is played straight afterwards - there is an almost sexual relief of tension.

Thank you for all this X. I'm going to use it as homework and try to understand what you are talking about. I mean that.

it's easier to hear it than to understand it technically. Play a G7 for a while and then play a C - you WILL feel the resolution of tension.

Nuts and bolts---I can do nuts and bolts.

Update (sort of): I just did as you suggested and...............I think you give me too much credit. I am not done listening though.


The sounds that feel the best for me are the minors. They are pretty and plaintive.
And, when I was first learning A I would make the error of dropping my fingers down one string. It makes a sound that feels good too.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Music theory is really interesting shit but not really needed for a beginner (understatement alert!)

If you are interested in that side of music, by all means look into it and, if you like, ask me about anything you don't understand - I am not an expert but I do have a pretty deep understanding of the basics and quite a way beyond.

What you NEED to know (IMHO) is a little about scales, chords and keys.

[Gallstones]

Yeah, dominant 7ths - 1st, 3rd, 5th and flatted 7th.

For a major 9th you add the 9th note to the major 7th chord - but the 9th is actually the octave of the 2nd. In a C scale that would be C-E-G-B-D, or you can play it C-D-E-G-B but it sounds better with the octave D.

11ths, 13ths, etc are formed the same way, by counting up from the root and adding the 11th or 13th or whatever note.

Xamonas can get into augmented, diminished and suspended chords, they always confuse the fuck out of me.

More homework.
I'm sure that once I get the ball rolling everything will fall into place. I need a picture, a map of sorts. If I can draw it I can understand.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Nuts and bolts---I can do nuts and bolts.

OK - perhaps you should repair guitars instead of play them in that case!

Update (sort of): I just did as you suggested and...............I think you give me too much credit. I am not done listening though.

Try a few other 7th ==> root progressions - (D7 ==> G, C7 ==> F, A7 ==> D) and imagine them at the end of a song - or the end of a verse.

The sounds that feel the best for me are the minors. They are pretty and plaintive.

Songs in minor keys tend to be sad and heartwrenching. Needless to say, most christian rock is firmly rooted in major keys - full of obvious, unexciting joy.

And, when I was first learning A I would make the error of dropping my fingers down one string. It makes a sound that feels good too.

What do you mean by "dropping my fingers down one string"? Did you play 2nd fret on the 1st, 2nd & 3rd strings? That chord is called D major 7th. It is cool and jazzy.

[Gallstones]

Music theory is really interesting shit but not really needed for a beginner (understatement alert!)

If you are interested in that side of music, by all means look into it and, if you like, ask me about anything you don't understand - I am not an expert but I do have a pretty deep understanding of the basics and quite a way beyond.

What you NEED to know (IMHO) is a little about scales, chords and keys.

I need to know where to put my fingers and how to make the tarantula dance. But not just that, I need to know the notes. I want it to remain interesting, so I will want to know more complex things. The grounding has to be laid first; I build on that. I appreciate any help I get. It is nice to be able to ask my questions of people who know all about this. I feel like a preschooler.

Scales, chords and keys. I'm on it.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Yeah, dominant 7ths - 1st, 3rd, 5th and flatted 7th.

For a major 9th you add the 9th note to the major 7th chord - but the 9th is actually the octave of the 2nd. In a C scale that would be C-E-G-B-D, or you can play it C-D-E-G-B but it sounds better with the octave D.

11ths, 13ths, etc are formed the same way, by counting up from the root and adding the 11th or 13th or whatever note.

Xamonas can get into augmented, diminished and suspended chords, they always confuse the fuck out of me.

More homework.
I'm sure that once I get the ball rolling everything will fall into place. I need a picture, a map of sorts. If I ca draw it I can understand.

I will try and find some of the handouts I used to give my guitar students - although I didn't go far into theory with them - but there were always a couple that wanted to know more about "how music works".

the main thing is that if it sounds good, you're doing it right!

[Gallstones]

Nuts and bolts---I can do nuts and bolts.

OK - perhaps you should repair guitars instead of play them in that case!

Har, har. I bet I could do it though.

Update (sort of): I just did as you suggested and...............I think you give me too much credit. I am not done listening though.

Try a few other 7th ==> root progressions - (D7 ==> G, C7 ==> F, A7 ==> D) and imagine them at the end of a song - or the end of a verse.

More nuts and bolts--something to do, because doing is learning.

The sounds that feel the best for me are the minors. They are pretty and plaintive.

Songs in minor keys tend to be sad and heartwrenching. Needless to say, most christian rock is firmly rooted in major keys - full of obvious, unexciting joy.

Xtian rock, I suppose I could drag some out to see if I can discern this.

And, when I was first learning A I would make the error of dropping my fingers down one string. It makes a sound that feels good too.

What do you mean by "dropping my fingers down one string"? Did you play 2nd fret on the 1st, 2nd & 3rd strings? That chord is called D major 7th. It is cool and jazzy.

Yes, exactly!

[Xamonas Chegwé]

You can get a lot of cool chords by changing one finger on the major or minor chords. Try lifting up a single finger on any chord you know to leave the open string and then try the other fingers. Also, try using any fingers that aren't doing anything to hold down an extra string.

Most of these combinations will be shit but a few will be really cool! Remember these and use them when you play. They all have names and you will no doubt come across them later but having found them yourself will make them special to you!

And, trust me, you will never stop learning the guitar - or any instrument for that matter - unless you abandon it completely. There is always something that makes you go WOW! - even if you have been playing for 30+ years like I have.

[Gallstones]

• 

30+ years!
I've been listening to music at least that long.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

• 

30+ years!
I've been listening to music at least that long.

Yep - and stuff still makes you go WOW! when you listen, yeah? Well playing is just the same!

[Thumpalumpacus]

Here is some good info on chords and fretboard mapping:

http://www.cagedguitarsystem.net/

Here's a simple explanation of how simple chords are built:

http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/chords.html

More that fretboard maps and internet sites, cultivate your ear. That is, after all, the coin of the realm. Learn your chords and intervals.

[Gallstones]

• 

30+ years!
I've been listening to music at least that long.

Yep - and stuff still makes you go WOW! when you listen, yeah? Well playing is just the same!

Playing is more than listening--despite listening being as wonderful as it is. Playing is more--and it offers a different experience to listening, it's own frame of mind (I don't know if any of this makes any sense). At present, when playing, it dominates all my attention so I can't listen too. One or the other--except that I do listen to myself when I play.

I don't really play[/] anything--I practice chords and keys.

[MarkS]

You tube is such a great resource, if you hear a song and want to know how to play all or part of it, there is probably someone on there with a vid to show you how.

[Geoff]

• 

30+ years!
I've been listening to music at least that long.

Yep - and stuff still makes you go WOW! when you listen, yeah? Well playing is just the same!

Playing is more than listening--despite listening being as wonderful as it is. Playing is more--and it offers a different experience to listening, it's own frame of mind (I don't know if any of this makes any sense). At present, when playing, it dominates all my attention so I can't listen too. One or the other--except that I do listen to myself when I play.

I don't really play[/] anything--I practice chords and keys.

Just found this thread, and some excellent advice already (especially from XC, except where he disses us "folkies"...!).

Practicing chords and keys is important, of course, but it's easy (and usually more enjoyable) to play things while doing it. I'd always teach my students simple 3- or 4- chord sequences that will fit millions of songs, and then find songs they know (depending on age, taste and so on) that use that sequence.

Once they've got the hang of, say, C, Am, F, G, I'd get them to practise the same sequence in different keys. I might get them to add the bass run to it: C, C(B), Am, Am(G), F... (by which time they're half way to playing the delightful "Ravensong".)

As to your last point: "...when playing, it dominates all my attention so I can't listen too..." that just comes with practice. Like when you first learn to drive, you're concentrating on which pedals to press, but after a while it becomes instinctive.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

• 

30+ years!
I've been listening to music at least that long.

Yep - and stuff still makes you go WOW! when you listen, yeah? Well playing is just the same!

Playing is more than listening--despite listening being as wonderful as it is. Playing is more--and it offers a different experience to listening, it's own frame of mind (I don't know if any of this makes any sense). At present, when playing, it dominates all my attention so I can't listen too. One or the other--except that I do listen to myself when I play.

I don't really play[/] anything--I practice chords and keys.

Just found this thread, and some excellent advice already (especially from XC, except where he disses us "folkies"...!).

Practicing chords and keys is important, of course, but it's easy (and usually more enjoyable) to play things while doing it. I'd always teach my students simple 3- or 4- chord sequences that will fit millions of songs, and then find songs they know (depending on age, taste and so on) that use that sequence.

Once they've got the hang of, say, C, Am, F, G, I'd get them to practise the same sequence in different keys. I might get them to add the bass run to it: C, C(B), Am, Am(G), F... (by which time they're half way to playing the delightful "Ravensong".)

As to your last point: "...when playing, it dominates all my attention so I can't listen too..." that just comes with practice. Like when you first learn to drive, you're concentrating on which pedals to press, but after a while it becomes instinctive.

Yep. The very best advice I can give you is to play with other people ASAP! THE most important skill in playing ANY instrument is keeping in time - playing with other people (especially those that have more experience than you) teaches this quicker than you can EVER learn it on your own.

EVERYBODY fucks up when playing every now and then - even the greats! But how you fuck up matters. Hitting a bum note is not usually a problem - most of the audience won't notice and those that do will probably think you are attempting jazz! Not keeping time is another fish in a different pond! EVERYONE will notice if you stop to correct a note and then start again out of step! The best way by far to learn to keep in time is to play with others - and it is the skill that separates the dabblers from those that can play an instrument.