Only in America

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Re: Only in America

Post by laklak » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:47 pm

Maybe I'm too jaded, but I never think about other people carrying guns, despite the fact that a hell of a lot of them do 'round here. Never seen anyone with a gun except for cops, people at the gun range, and hunters in the woods. Of course it's called concealed carry because the guns are concealed, but I still don't think about it and certainly don't worry about some random dude shooting me.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Joe » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:09 pm

We have open carry here, so I see people with sidearms from time to time. The only thing that troubles me is when they have a crappy holster and I worry about an accidental discharge.

I think I've gotten used to it because I've lived here 35 years.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Rum » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:17 pm

I wonder if the 'fear' referred to in the video above is not so much to do with guns as a 'mindset' to use one of our fellow member's favourite words - or an 'attitude', perhaps.

America seems to have a culture that is about 'every man for himself' whereas most other countries, certainly European ones, have a greater sense of collective responsibility - a kind of underlying socialism if you like. Perhaps the fact that your fellow citizens are potential competitors does something to the individual psyche.

I'm not bashing America - I'm a long time admirer. Just trying to fathom a pretty complicated country.

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Re: Only in America

Post by Joe » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:28 pm

Yeah, that's probably right. A lot of our culture seems to push fear. I don't know if we're afraid because we're isolated, or isolated by fear.

I know my personal fears greatly decreased when I stopped watching television.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Seabass » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:34 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:38 pm
Skip to 2:00 for the main gig...

I'd say there are some kernels of truth to some of what she says, but she's making the mistake of thinking that her experiences are representative of the entire country.

I made the same mistake when I was certain Trump would lose. Hell, I was shocked when he won the primary, nevermind the general. Not that I didn't know middle America and particularly the bible belt were full of crazy bumpkins, but when you don't live in a particular culture or subculture, you tend to be less cognizant of it than your own. Having only ever lived in California and Washington, I've been relatively insulated from the madness of the bible belt. The increasing balkanization of the media certainly doesn't help. I knew Merkins were dumb, but I didn't think the situation was so dire that a jackass like Trump could ascend to the highest office in the land.

She says Americans aren't into fresh food. As a Californian, it feels like we're downright obsessed with it. But then, I've only lived in major cities. If you go further inland where you don't have supermarkets and farmers markets on every corner, perhaps people have to rely more on canned and/or frozen food? Do Europeans on average eat fresher food than Americans on average? Dunno. Maybe. Her anecdotes tell us nothing, however. In fact, every time I hear Brits talk about eating canned beans on toast, I can't help but feel a bit sorry for them. :hehe:

Public transit. Depends on population density. What she said about it being for poor people does apply in San Diego, but I have also lived in San Francisco where public transit was perfectly normal. In fact, much of the time, driving was an inconvenience because it's crowded everywhere and parking was expensive and a pain in the ass. Of course mass transit is more developed in Europe overall though, because it is much more densely populated.

With regard to the constant fear she speaks of, I imagine it's probably true that Americans are more fearful on average than Europeans. I have never lived with that kind of fear, personally. Perhaps because I'm a man? Or because I've lived only in blue states that aren't gun-obsessed? Maybe I've only lived in relatively good neighborhoods? Is it because I finished school pre-Columbine? Or perhaps I'm just oblivious? Dunno. But this notion that we're all walking around terrified for our lives feels like a bit of a caricature. Between the guns and the school shootings and the wars and 911 and the Cold War and being World Police and all this shit, we probably are more fearful on average. I'd be surprised if we weren't. I don't know of any way to measure it though, so it comes down to feelings and speculation.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:13 pm

On the general level of fear thing, if the news focuses on the most dramatic and appalling of crimes, if every other TV show is based around a murder, or three, if you're told that a particular section of the population are inherently and habitually criminally minded, if the films you go and see are predominantly heroic narratives in which good people defeat the bad with overpowering quantities of righteous violence, if you teach school kids drills in case of mass shootings, and people can be randomly sprayed with automatic weapons fire in their workplaces, at the mall, at their placed of worship, in night clubs and at pop concerts, and all this thought to be kind of inevitable and just how the world is, then I'm not surprised that the levels of stress and fear in the population are relatively high. And if you consider the known facts about the impact of stress, fear, and trauma on the development and metabolism of the prefrontal cortex and the role this brain region plays in things like decision making, moral reasoning, agression, empathy, and sociopathy, then certain social and political issues, while giving the appearance of being ingrained and intractable, may in fact have achievable and practical remedies that could improve the well being of individuals, communities, and the nation within a generation. A nation can become a more balanced, rational, nicer, more tolerant, less fearful versions of itself if it's led and administrated for that purpose - though not the US under Trump I'm afraid.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Seabass » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:25 pm

It's not just Trump. He's not the disease, he's merely a symptom. I'm afraid things will only continue to get worse as long as we're in NATO. Being de facto world police has clearly driven us collectively mad. Or maybe we were always mad, and the perpetual warfare and fear have made things a lot worse.

That's the one silver lining in this whole debacle—we might leave or get kicked out of NATO.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:32 am

Seabass wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:25 pm
It's not just Trump. He's not the disease, he's merely a symptom. I'm afraid things will only continue to get worse as long as we're in NATO. Being de facto world police has clearly driven us collectively mad. Or maybe we were always mad, and the perpetual warfare and fear have made things a lot worse.

That's the one silver lining in this whole debacle—we might leave or get kicked out of NATO.
I heard a few years ago the same from a group of ex-pat Americans. For the most it was their first time outside the states. They were working for international companies as Shell, Unilever and ESA.
They found it odd the relaxed way people got on with each other. How free their kids were. Those working noticed the workplace was quite different. No tension about job security. The thing they did notice was the Dutch insistence on meetings about everything.
Almost to a man they took up cycling everywhere. Talking to strangers for them was so easy.

They mentioned the fear of non acceptance by the group was for many a big problem. The fear of guns and violence was there as well. Fear of the police, government officials. There was also the fear of ill health and hospital bills.

My take on this fear is the importance of it in American society. It lives on fear. From education to job security to how society operates. A constant underlying feeling of uncertainty. To counter this people carry guns which just adds another cycle to the fear.

I agree the existence of NATO and the phoney cold war has never helped. In the 50's, 60's, 70's and into the 80's this constant aggression from both sides did not help one bit. How different countries reacted depended on their approach to fear. In America my impression it was a personal thing; the reds were everywhere. In Europe there was more a collective sceptical approach. Here the Dutch never believed it.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Tero » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:01 pm

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Re: Only in America

Post by Tero » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:03 pm

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Re: Only in America

Post by Seabass » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:42 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:32 am
I agree the existence of NATO and the phoney cold war has never helped.
:banghead: Repeating it ad nauseam won't make it true. I may like NATO about as much as you do, but don't go thinking it's for the same reasons. No point arguing however, because neither of us is going to budge.

It's ok though, Scot. I guess being able to blame all the world's problems on one group of people makes the harsh realities of life easier to bear for some people. :coffee:
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Re: Only in America

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:59 am

Seabass wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:42 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:32 am
I agree the existence of NATO and the phoney cold war has never helped.
:banghead: Repeating it ad nauseam won't make it true. I may like NATO about as much as you do, but don't go thinking it's for the same reasons. No point arguing however, because neither of us is going to budge.

It's ok though, Scot. I guess being able to blame all the world's problems on one group of people makes the harsh realities of life easier to bear for some people. :coffee:
WTF are you on about? :smug: Who is blaming anyone? Just because you have trouble understanding the cold war was phoney proves fuck all.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Hermit » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:20 am

Europe did have a phoney war. It started on the 3rd of September 1939 and finished with a bang or two on the 10th of May 1940. Fuck-all happened militarily in that period. The Germans called it the "Sitzkrieg". "Sitz" means "sit". The cold war was not phoney. The only reason it did not turn into a hot one like the phoney war preceding WWII was the likelihood of MAD.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:45 am

Hermit wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:20 am
Europe did have a phoney war. It started on the 3rd of September 1939 and finished with a bang or two on the 10th of May 1940. Fuck-all happened militarily in that period. The Germans called it the "Sitzkrieg". "Sitz" means "sit". The cold war was not phoney. The only reason it did not turn into a hot one like the phoney war preceding WWII was the likelihood of MAD.
It was phoney. The arms manufactures made a killing and socialism was destroyed. Its main purpose. Just look at the position of socialism in the 50's. America was terrified and invented the "American Dream".
Because of MAD it had no other purpose other than that of scaring the living daylights out of people on both sides of iron curtain.
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Re: Only in America

Post by Hermit » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:02 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:45 am
Hermit wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:20 am
Europe did have a phoney war. It started on the 3rd of September 1939 and finished with a bang or two on the 10th of May 1940. Fuck-all happened militarily in that period. The Germans called it the "Sitzkrieg". "Sitz" means "sit". The cold war was not phoney. The only reason it did not turn into a hot one like the phoney war preceding WWII was the likelihood of MAD.
It was phoney. The arms manufactures made a killing and socialism was destroyed. Its main purpose. Just look at the position of socialism in the 50's. America was terrified and invented the "American Dream".
Because of MAD it had no other purpose other than that of scaring the living daylights out of people on both sides of iron curtain.
Yes, the armaments industry made money hand over fist. That's because the cold war was real. With the exception of Yugoslavia the USSR turned all Eastern European nations and half of Germany into vassal states, extended its tentacles into African, Middle Eastern and South East Asian countries and entered into a strategic alliance with China until 1961. There was a fucking arms race going on, with the eastern bloc developing and increasing its military capabilities no less enthusiastically than the western. The Cuban missile crisis was not some sort of joke. What rock did you live under in all that time?
Last edited by Hermit on Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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