Surge in Gun Owners Crowd Ranges.

[Cormac]

If you think not, then I challenge you try and come take my guns away yourself. Then you'll find out whether I have a fundamental right of self defense or not...though that information will not do you any good for the few seconds you have to consider the error of your reasoning before the red stuff all leaks out and you become an inanimate and useless lump of decaying meat.

And those sort of psychopathic thinking is exactly why we don't allow 'law abiding citizens' near guns

Defending yourself is not psychotic. You are utterly ridiculous to the highest proportions.

Letting yourself be killed on the other hand... now that's insane.

Humans as a species are doomed if we are all like jonno where our survival instinct seems to have vanished.

Although, I suspect that if he was ever in a situation, where say there are multiple attackers and he manages to get a hold of one of their guns, and is left with a, pull the trigger or die, situation. His survival instinct would kick in and he would save his own life. When it comes to brass tacks, he would save his own life and quickly forget about his high and mighty liberal utopian ideals.

(sorry).

[Collector1337]

No, it does not come down to statistics. That's insane.

When a group of street hooligans corner you, let me know how well your statistics save you.

Stats is exactly what it comes how likely are you to be cornered by a group of street hooligans

No it is not. That is completely asinine and insane.

Through the operative word there is 'group', ifs guns are common then its a group of hooligans with guns and you might have one, if they arent then its going to hooligans with flicknives and you not having a gun either way you are fucked

You assume that if the law abiding can have guns, then so will all criminals, which is just a plain lie. Thanks for admitting having a gun would be useful though. Gun > "flickknife"

[Collector1337]

(sorry).

Thanks.

[MrJonno]

You assume that if the law abiding can have guns, then so will all criminals, which is just a plain lie. Thanks for admitting having a gun would be useful though. Gun > "flickknife"

And you are assuming there is such thing as a law abiding citizen, anyone is a bad day at office away from killing someone. Sorry don't differentiate between 'good' and 'bad' guys thats Hollywood, there are only emotional irrational human beings all of whom are potentially dangerous just a lot less so when they don't have access to firearms

[Cormac]

(sorry).

Thanks.

You're welcome. I apologise for my hypocritical pedantry. Please feel free to point out any such errors I make. I seem to be making more and more lately...

[Collector1337]

You assume that if the law abiding can have guns, then so will all criminals, which is just a plain lie. Thanks for admitting having a gun would be useful though. Gun > "flickknife"

And you are assuming there is such thing as a law abiding citizen,

Yes, indeed there are many. I know lots of them.

anyone is a bad day at office away from killing someone.

That's ridiculous. That's so mind-numbingly ignorant. You don't even have a remote understanding of basic psychology.

If you actually believe that, then you are seriously disturbed.

In fact, I would say that you believe such a thing because you do not trust yourself, and you most certainly don't trust yourself with a firearm. You must feel very unstable with your own sanity to believe such things about everyone else.

But, I have news for you. We are not all unstable like you are.

Sorry don't differentiate between 'good' and 'bad' guys thats Hollywood, there are only emotional irrational human beings all of whom are potentially dangerous just a lot less so when they don't have access to firearms

Wow, you really are totally clueless. You obviously need some basic psychology and criminology classes.

[MrJonno]

That's ridiculous. That's so mind-numbingly ignorant. You don't even have a remote understanding of basic psychology.

And you obviously have never had to commute for an hour crammed in a hot train train with someone elbow in your groin. Would you really feel safer if you one of the people below and all were armed. How's your tactical awareness training going to save you here

[Seth]

I'm not a pacifist but like farming, electrics, driving, plumbing, running the country, the law and 99% of most things I leave violence to the professionals

Evasion. Can't answer the question honestly can you?

Shall we assume then that you will sit passively by and watch your wife and daughter be raped and tortured to death?

[Seth]

I would use whatever was avaliable to defend myself and others...

Thank you for actually answering the question.

So, you will indeed use the machine gun. Good for you.

Now, let's change the situation slightly and propose that it is not YOU and your family in danger, but rather it is your best friend and his family in the same identical circumstances. Would HE be justified in using the machine gun to protect his loved ones?

[Seth]

That's ridiculous. That's so mind-numbingly ignorant. You don't even have a remote understanding of basic psychology.

And you obviously have never had to commute for an hour crammed in a hot train train with someone elbow in your groin. Would you really feel safer if you one of the people below and all were armed. How's your tactical awareness training going to save you here

That's tactics, not strategy. I can choose not to use my gun in such a situation, but only because I have a gun. If I don't have a gun, I don't have that choice. And should the situation change, as violent situations usually do, to one where it would be reasonable, prudent and lawful for me to use my gun for self-defense or the defense of others, why then I will be able to do so, which would not be the case if I didn't have a gun.

Here's a contemporary example: The fellow who drove onto the boardwalk in Atlantic City and mowed down more than a dozen people, killing an Italian newlywed woman. Given the appropriate tactical situation, with due consideration for things like my skill, where a missed shot might end up and suchlike, I might well have shot the driver dead after discerning that his actions were an imminent threat to others. I might not have done so as well. But without a gun, nobody on that boardwalk had the option of even trying to stop the carnage, and practically nobody in New Jersey carries a concealed weapon because New Jersey doesn't have a "shall issue" law and for political reasons, like New York (much worse in fact) only grants them to the select few, usually political cronies of the administration...and the occasional mobster.

It's all about choice you see. Those people in New Jersey had no choice. Every person I've cited in the other thread who used a gun to successfully thwart or stop a crime DID have a choice, which they used properly and effectively.

The fact that YOU think you're safer by avoiding the attack, while perfectly true, fails to address what happens if and when you are UNABLE to avoid the attack, as in the example in which you just admitted you would use a machine gun IF YOU HAD THE NEED AND CHOICE TO DO SO.

Now all you have to do is somehow comprehend the fact that everybody else on the planet has the right to make that same choice. Moreover they have the right to choose to arm themselves IN ANTICIPATION of an attack where OTHER methods of avoidance or termination are not possible or effective. Neither you, nor the government, nor anybody else has the authority to take that choice away from them based on arbitrary and factually vacuous paranoid fears from people like you.

[Seth]

You keep forgetting I have personally defended myself with a firearm. So, I should be locked up according to you?

I have no interest in your personal anecdotes or anyone else's, its a numbers game and in the end comes down to statistics. If having 'law abiding citizens' carrying around guns makes me less likely to be shot then great but it doesnt.

You don't understand, we gun-carrying law abiding citizens don't really give a flying fuck about YOUR safety, we care about OUR safety and the safety of our loved ones (remember the machine gun?) and other innocent people.

Whether you get clubbed or stabbed to death is YOUR concern and you're allowed to do what you think is right to avoid or prevent it. But you can't force that same modus operandi on anyone else on the vacuous notion that their ability to effectively defend themselves makes you nervous. That's your problem to deal with. Go buy a ballistic vest and wear it around if you like.

[Collector1337]

That's ridiculous. That's so mind-numbingly ignorant. You don't even have a remote understanding of basic psychology.

And you obviously have never had to commute for an hour crammed in a hot train train with someone elbow in your groin.

Yes, I have actually. So no, since you have no idea what you're talking about, it's not really a time to use the word "obviously."

However, luckily for me, I have the luxury of driving a BMW. So, I don't need to use public transportation, being crammed like a sardine like some schmuck. I'll leave that to you.

Would you really feel safer if you

Yes, I would feel safer if I was armed.

one of the people below and all were armed.

Well, that's just bullshit. Why would they ALL be armed?

But, to answer your question, since I actually answer questions instead of dodging like you, I wouldn't mind if they were armed in the least. That's their right and their decision.

[Seth]

But, to answer your question, since I actually answer questions instead of dodging like you, I wouldn't mind if they were armed in the least. That's their right and their decision.

Besides, Jonno's never heard of a "contact shot" which can be highly effective and relatively safe in crowds.

[piscator]

That's ridiculous. That's so mind-numbingly ignorant. You don't even have a remote understanding of basic psychology.

And you obviously have never had to commute for an hour crammed in a hot train train with someone elbow in your groin. Would you really feel safer if you one of the people below and all were armed. How's your tactical awareness training going to save you here

I'd watch out for that short chick. She looks like a groper.

[Tyrannical]

You keep forgetting I have personally defended myself with a firearm. So, I should be locked up according to you?

I have no interest in your personal anecdotes or anyone else's, its a numbers game and in the end comes down to statistics. If having 'law abiding citizens' carrying around guns makes me less likely to be shot then great but it doesnt.

You don't understand, we gun-carrying law abiding citizens don't really give a flying fuck about YOUR safety, we care about OUR safety and the safety of our loved ones (remember the machine gun?) and other innocent people.

Whether you get clubbed or stabbed to death is YOUR concern and you're allowed to do what you think is right to avoid or prevent it. But you can't force that same modus operandi on anyone else on the vacuous notion that their ability to effectively defend themselves makes you nervous. That's your problem to deal with. Go buy a ballistic vest and wear it around if you like.

How insensitive of you Seth.
If he were being stabbed or clubbed, I would do my best to shoot the perpetrator. And try not to miss