How could Germany have won WW2?

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Forty Two
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How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Forty Two » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:35 pm

Theory 1: Cancel Operation Barbarossa and instead go full bore at Britain.

Could Germany have made a short end to the war in Europe by simply trying to invade Great Britain and Ireland?

Rebuttal - Germany was forced into invading Russia because of its need for oil, and it did not have the near term ability to land sufficient forces on GB. It would have been stalled, opening up a possible opportunit for Stalin to stab Hitler in the back.

Theory 2 - don't declare war on the US.

This would have resulted in the US dragging its feet longer before entering the war.

Rebuttal - no, it wouldn't.

Theory 3 -- Invade Russia, but do so with Japanese invasion from the east.

This would have resulted in the Soviets not being able to resupply their troops in Europe, and Barbarossa would have succeeded in taking Moscow.

Rebuttal -- ?

Theory 4 - Focus on Moscow and leave Stalingrad for later.

Had they just used all their forces to grab Moscow, they would have stuck a fork in Russia and Stalingrad could have been mopped up after.

Rebuttal -- Stalingrad would have been just as much of a bloodbath, and the Germans desperately needed the oil asap, and Moscow didn't give them that.
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Rum » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:05 pm

I think Hitler's mistake was not invading Britain when it was at its weakest shortly after the retreat at Dunkirk. Britain was ill prepared to fight at any major level and holding back just gave it more time to gear up its military machine.

It would be nice to think that the UK (assuming Scotland went too) would have made life miserable for the occupying forces, but who knows. There was a degree of sympathy in Britain at all levels of society for the Nazis.

He should then have held back on Russia - and maybe come to some treaty with them. America too, with Britain defeated would have been reluctant to enter the war - and of course there would be no island beachhead to mount any sort of invasion from.

As to oil. One assumes with Britain under its thumb oil would have flowed from the dominions.

I think it is also interesting to speculate on what would have happened if after a successful invasion of Britain there was a period of stability in Europe - a few years anyway. The upper echelons of the Nazi party were corrupt, insanely jealous and envious of each other and were very bad at any sort of team work. Nor was there a credible successor. The party and the Third Reich might well have imploded as Hitler lost his grip through age and resistance movements got the upper hand.

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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Jason » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:20 pm

Let me see.. I won once at Hearts of Iron 4...

IIRC I used subterfuge and propaganda to convert America to facism. I polished off France by going around the Maginot line (duh) - the Dutch put up a surprising fight - damn Tulip lovers. Once I held western Europe (England didn't dare make a move without the support of America or Canada [America went on a war of conquest in the Americas]) I moved east. After breaking with the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact and annexing Poland Russia declared on me so I enlisted Italy's help and pushed them east, seizing the rich oilfields to the south of course. Japan declared on Russia as well and moved on them from the east through Mongolia.

The trick was to sap the strength of the allies with propaganda campaigns to change their politics - also I didn't build much of a navy - waste of time. From 1936 there just isn't enough time to build something equal to France or England and the steel, tungsten, and other precious materials that Germany lacks are better put to use building ground forces and the airforce. The Italians managed to hold back the Royal Navy anyway, and I conquered France before they could bring their navy to bear.

So... I'd work on turning America fascist first. Also a strong air force is critical.
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Seabass » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:23 pm

Information warfare.

Germany engages in a disinformation campaign aimed at manipulating the gullible, religious, bigoted, paranoid, subaverage IQ half of America into believing in an absurd alternate reality that bears little resemblance to objective reality—up is down, black is white, brown people and non-Christians are destroying America. The US then joins the Axis powers instead of the Allied powers thus plunging the world into a dark age of fascism and genocidal racism for centuries to come.

This method proved highly effective in the lead-up to the 2016 US presidential election.

ETA: I see Siva kind of beat me to it... :hehe:
Last edited by Seabass on Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Rum » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:23 pm

The Italian navy held back the Royal Navy? :hehe:

I should add that I know my WW2 history well enough to know that the Italians were not a walkover - in the Med anyway.

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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by rainbow » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:33 am

Rum wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:23 pm
The Italian navy held back the Royal Navy? :hehe:

I should add that I know my WW2 history well enough to know that the Italians were not a walkover - in the Med anyway.
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by NineBerry » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:20 am

Hitler believed his biggest mistake was to postpone operation Barbarossa in order to be able to help Mussolini with his debacle in Greece.

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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:25 am

Ally with the Dutch. With the Dutch on his side, they would be unstoppable!
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by cronus » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:50 am

They did win. Demolish all the old buildings and use American money to rebuild it all ultra-modern. Where did they go wrong?
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by laklak » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:11 am

Build a time machine, steal Fat Man and Little Boy, bring them back and nuke London and Moscow in '39.
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Svartalf » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:38 pm

NineBerry wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:20 am
Hitler believed his biggest mistake was to postpone operation Barbarossa in order to be able to help Mussolini with his debacle in Greece.
Actually, Barbarossa itself was the major mistake, much soviet industrial power was in the Urals and east, beyond the reach of the Germans, and they would no more have been prepared for the Russian winter had they started earlier.
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:38 pm

As a half-German, I know shockingly little about the second world war.
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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Hermit » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:41 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:38 pm
Actually, Barbarossa itself was the major mistake
Barbarossa was unwinnable from the outset, but unavoidable. Both dictators knew the Molotov–Ribbentrop (non-aggression) Pact was a farce, and so did everyone else from the moment it was signed. Hitler was shit-scared that the longer he delayed attacking the USSR the better Stalin's chances of actually winning the war.

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Svartalf wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:38 pm
much soviet industrial power was in the Urals and east, beyond the reach of the Germans
Soviet industrial power in the Urals and east would have been neutered without the oil fields of Baku and surrounds, all of which lay very much west of the Urals, and far to the south of Leningrad, Stalingrad and Moscow where the German armies first sunk into the mud, then froze to death.

My answer to "How could Germany have won WW2?" is: It couldn't. All answers to the contrary amount to something like the saying "If my grandmother had a scrotum she would have been my grandfather".

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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:12 am

I agree with Hermit. WWII as such was unwinnable for Germany. In fantasy-world, be content with annexing the Sudetenland and a bit of Poland, then shut up, hunker down and consolidate. That was never on the books.

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Re: How could Germany have won WW2?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:49 am

I agree WW2 was unwinnable for Hitler. One thing he had always too little of was oil. Which is why he switched from occupying the UK and going for the Soviet oil fields. He could not occupy the UK without oil. He totally underestimated the response from the USA and Commonwealth countries.
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