Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 05, 2018 10:59 am

I don't think it's been proven anywhere that this is our nature. It's more likely social learning in a capitalist system that turns us selfish and greedy.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat May 05, 2018 11:05 am

Dont think so. Just watch children playing.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 05, 2018 11:15 am

They haven't developed the cognitive or social skills to even contemplate their behaviour.

Humans have lived communally most of our existence.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat May 05, 2018 12:01 pm

No? The exhibit basic human habits which are not learned.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 05, 2018 12:50 pm

How do you know they are not learned? They are only kids with undeveloped brains.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Alan B » Sat May 05, 2018 4:18 pm

Because brains develop as they age from childhood does not mean that the actions, memories and habits of the 'undeveloped brain' are erased by the ageing process...
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat May 05, 2018 8:32 pm

Christ, this is so boring. Marxism this and Marxism that; The Red Menace; Better dead than Red; Blah blah blah. It's like being paranoid about poltergeists or a battalion of rabid combat fairies. And because of all the noise and faux fear nobody pays any heed to the real force threating to undermine our glorious civilization - anarcho-syndicalism.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Rum » Sat May 05, 2018 8:55 pm

I agree. I would add that Marxism is a red herring - a bit like arguing over the meaning of the Bible, when one no longer gives any credence to the damn thing.

The issue surely is 'social justice', not Marxism - and how to achieve it. One does not really need a 'school of thought' for it unless one wishes to set up a whole frame of reference which people get bogged down in and end up killing each other over the minutia of what bits are important. . One does not need to get bogged down with dogma, the ideology of Marxism or its interpretation.

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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by JimC » Sat May 05, 2018 10:30 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:59 am
I don't think it's been proven anywhere that this is our nature. It's more likely social learning in a capitalist system that turns us selfish and greedy.
I'm fairly certain selfishness, jealousy and aggression (particularly to the "other") are emotional responses which are part of our genetic make-up. However, they are there in potential, and the degree to which they emerge is going to heavily depend on up-bringing and culture; it is perfectly possible that aspects of our current capitalist culture make, for example, selfishness more likely to emerge.

But it's not all doom and gloom; along with the inherited negatives, we also have strong drives for co-operation and empathy, typically directed within the tribe, but these emotional responses, in the right social environment, can be directed much more broadly.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 05, 2018 11:00 pm

Alan B wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:18 pm
Because brains develop as they age from childhood does not mean that the actions, memories and habits of the 'undeveloped brain' are erased by the ageing process...
It may or may not, but I doubt you are right. Do you scratch people's faces off and pull their hair when you don't get what you want?

The real question is: where's the evidence for any of this greedy human nature thing?
Last edited by pErvinalia on Sat May 05, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 05, 2018 11:02 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:32 pm
Christ, this is so boring. Marxism this and Marxism that; The Red Menace; Better dead than Red; Blah blah blah. It's like being paranoid about poltergeists or a battalion of rabid combat fairies. And because of all the noise and faux fear nobody pays any heed to the real force threating to undermine our glorious civilization - anarcho-syndicalism.
It's actually purple haired shouty lesbians that are the real threat!
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Forty Two » Sun May 06, 2018 7:24 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:51 am
Yep. It fails to handle basic human nature: greed and jealousy.
How Hobbesian of you.

I think people are naturally reasonable and moral, and that shows throughout the society I live in. Although there is crime and bad behavior, it's not the prevailing nature of humans, and I have high opinion of humans and human nature in general.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Forty Two » Sun May 06, 2018 7:26 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:05 am
Dont think so. Just watch children playing.
Just got in from watching my kids playing with a group of kids. They all behaved themselves quite well, shared, interacted quite well. When they started getting tired there was some falling and crying here and there, but there was little to no greed or jealousy taking place. That's typical here.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Alan B » Mon May 07, 2018 11:57 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:00 pm
Alan B wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:18 pm
Because brains develop as they age from childhood does not mean that the actions, memories and habits of the 'undeveloped brain' are erased by the ageing process...
It may or may not, but I doubt you are right. Do you scratch people's faces off and pull their hair when you don't get what you want?
The operative word I used was 'erased'. The actions, memories and habits of the 'undeveloped brain' are suppressed and 'forgotten' but may 'arise' - with the appropriate trigger - and influence behaviour later in life - albeit modified to suit the occasion.
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Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Mon May 07, 2018 12:22 pm

Alright, but this is little more than a "just so" story. Is there any evidence we are inherently greedy/selfish?
Last edited by pErvinalia on Mon May 07, 2018 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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