Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18024
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by cronus » Thu May 03, 2018 2:05 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-43 ... his-family

100 years on: The murder of the Russian Tsar and his family
100 years ago, the Russian Tsar Nicholas II and his entire family were killed by a firing squad.

For many years, the circumstances of their death were shrouded in mystery.

Their bones were eventually found in a swamp outside the Siberian city of Ekaterinburg where the Royal Family were held in captivity.

In 1998, they were reburied in St Petersburg.

Olga Romanoff, the great-niece of the Russian Tsar, spoke to Witness.

(continued, with onsite vid...)

...don't know why? it's another form of barbarism like fascism...in respect of dead bodies this deep socialism....instead of man preying on man, it's the other way around and man preying on man instead.
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 13004
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I identify as sexually arousing to women.
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Forty Two » Fri May 04, 2018 12:59 pm

I've gathered it's venerated because in general terms it seems to promise that everyone will be taken care of , and I think most middle class folks who venerate it think that its promise is that the poor and destitute will be afforded a middle class lifestyle too, and that the uber-rich won't be unfairly uber-rich anymore.
"Every socialistic type of government… produces bad art, produces social inertia, produces really unhappy people, and it's more repressive than any other kind of government." Frank Zappa.

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 35236
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Rum » Fri May 04, 2018 2:10 pm

If I remember right it would be Marx's 200th birthday tomorrow.

Wonder what he would have made of the state of things...

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 46808
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Fri May 04, 2018 2:33 pm

I wonder what he would be doing if he was alive today?
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
Probably scratching on his coffin. :{D
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 35236
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Rum » Fri May 04, 2018 3:13 pm

I’ve been to his tomb at Highgate cemetery in London. Seemed fairly undisturbed at the time.

Zombie Marxist Apocalypse - there’s a film I’d like to see!

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18024
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by cronus » Fri May 04, 2018 3:18 pm

Rum wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 3:13 pm
I’ve been to his tomb at Highgate cemetery in London. Seemed fairly undisturbed at the time.

Zombie Marxist Apocalypse - there’s a film I’d like to see!
For a commie he got himself a big slab. Typical.
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 13004
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I identify as sexually arousing to women.
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Forty Two » Fri May 04, 2018 3:52 pm

Marx just got the basics wrong. He predicted that capitalism would drive down wages to survival level before its final demise. In fact as economies became more advanced, both wages and living standards rose, which tends to reduce revolutionary pressure.

Marx drafted his theories in a world where his "proletariat" were little more than slaves -- serfs -- subsistence level. Give such a person merely what he "needs" and you've raised his living standard, and he's already working like a slave, so asking him to contribute in accordance with his ability to give, that probably feels like a reduction in demand. And, then he gets to look to the bourgeoisie, intelligentsia and aristocracy, and say "you have too much already, so you should get a reduction to our level, and you don't do as much work, so you should give more..." -- makes the cost/benefit analysis of communism seem much more to a person's liking in that scenario - the context of 1850 Europe, which had a small number of rich and middle class people, and a large number of poor who were not merely poor in a relative sense, but poor in an absolute sense (subsistence level).
"Every socialistic type of government… produces bad art, produces social inertia, produces really unhappy people, and it's more repressive than any other kind of government." Frank Zappa.

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 46808
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by pErvinalia » Fri May 04, 2018 3:58 pm

A huge number of people are only a paycheck or two away from losing their home and/or becoming homeless. What Marx didn't foresee is the explosion of credit, which is being used to prop so many people (and countries) up. I think we're not that far from revolutionary times.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18024
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by cronus » Fri May 04, 2018 5:10 pm

Marx was a mathematician. The reason 'das capital' wasn't popular. Full of calculus.
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 58941
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by JimC » Fri May 04, 2018 11:00 pm

I think very few "venerate" his ideas; the term has religious connotations. A handful of rigid Marxists may live or die by his written words, of course.

However, that does not mean that his ideas do not have important implications, in more than one way. We've learned that authoritarian states are easily generated by revolutions. On the other hand, we have also learned that capitalism in its raw form always and automatically gouges workers until they bleed, and strong governments and unions are needed to keep the balance.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 18905
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Hermit » Sat May 05, 2018 5:39 am

What exactly has the the centenary of the death of the Russian Tsar and his family to do with the allegation that some people venerate communist ideals still? For starters, Nikolas and co were not murdered. They were executed by heroes of the revolution so the White Russians, who looked like winning the civil war at the time, could not reinstall them as the heads of the evil feudal regime. Next, it's been decades since I met anyone in person who recognised the communist revolutionaries for what they were: saviours of the working class, destroyers of oppression!

Image

Image

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18024
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by cronus » Sat May 05, 2018 6:55 am

Communism been tested by time and across cultures. Always replaced cruelty with cruelty. The short term economic gains at the expense of a destroyed ecology worse than base capitalism. The best way is a flexible economy that can increase the power of the state in 'economic winters' and decrease the power of the state in 'economic summers' rather than the other way around as under neo-liberalism. Flexibility is the key. Security for the most vulnerable and everyone else put on 'death ground' of change to make certain they are on their toes. Because with all the numerous problems and possibilities only flexibility with mind, body and soul will guarantee the best optimum outcome.
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 9093
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat May 05, 2018 8:36 am

Pure communism has never existed.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 32294
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Svartalf » Sat May 05, 2018 8:53 am

and it cannot exist, as, like most great political and philosophical theories, it fails utterly to take human nature into account.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 9093
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Some People Venerate Communist Ideals Still....

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat May 05, 2018 9:51 am

Yep. It fails to handle basic human nature: greed and jealousy.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests