Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

[jamest]

Just watched another WW2 documentary... got me thinking... why the fuck did Hitler give up on defeating Britain before attacking Russia? Was this the decision which ultimately led to Germany's defeat?

... With Britain out of the war, Hitler would have [financial] access to much of its 'empire'. Plus, much less chance (or NO chance) of the USA getting involved!! Then, he could have focussed entirely upon Russia. No need for any large armies in Western Europe and Africa, or anywhere around the Mediterranean.

Seems like a no-brainer to me, so why didn't he first shaft Britain in 1940-41, before turning on the Russians? Why did he just give up after the relatively-short 'Battle of Britain' (air war) in the summer of 1940?

I actually think that Germany could have won the war with Britain out of the way and the USA [subsequently] disinterested. Indeed, Germany came quite close to defeating Russia regardless... the Russian winter/spring of 1941/42 probably being the decisive factor.

Another big mistake was to make a pact with Japan, since that was the thing which ultimately dragged the USA into the war. Yet, Hitler only did that to improve his odds against Russia (I doubt he thought Japan would take on the USA at the time of making the alliance?). So, if he'd have taken out Britain first, he wouldn't have had to make such a silly alliance. Why make an alliance with a country at war with China/Asia-generally, which is also seriously getting on the tits of the USA? Fuck that. In the 1940s, Germany was as far away from The Pacific as it is from the moon in the 21st century (that's a fuckin' metaphor, obviously). No need for any of that shit, back then.

Does it really all boil down to Hitler being an inept idiot, being surrounded by mice-advisors? Or were there actually good reasons for doing what he decided to do? If there weren't, then Germany really did blow it.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

In order to invade Britain, Hitler would have needed completely different equipment to that which he used to conquer the rest of Europe - to whit, landing craft in great numbers. An air invasion could not have planted enough troops, quickly enough, to establish a beachhead - and, even if it could, that beachhead would be cut off from his power-base!

So he played for time and became overtaken by events when Stalin grew ever more greedy and bossy.

At least, that's how I see it. Your mileage may vary...

[jamest]

In order to invade Britain, Hitler would have needed completely different equipment to that which he used to conquer the rest of Europe - to whit, landing craft in great numbers. An air invasion could not have planted enough troops, quickly enough, to establish a beachhead - and, even if it could, that beachhead would be cut off from his power-base!

My point is: why give up in September 1940? Why not give it another year, or so? Invade Russia afterwards. Plus, don't make silly alliances with Japan... no need.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

In order to invade Britain, Hitler would have needed completely different equipment to that which he used to conquer the rest of Europe - to whit, landing craft in great numbers. An air invasion could not have planted enough troops, quickly enough, to establish a beachhead - and, even if it could, that beachhead would be cut off from his power-base!

My point is: why give up in September 1940? Why not give it another year, or so? Invade Russia afterwards. Plus, don't make silly alliances with Japan... no need.

He was mad. He hated Stalin. He hated Comm'nists. He hated Slavs. He feared Stalin getting too strong, grabbing too much territory and attacking him! Barbarossa was a huge tactical mistake - perhaps as big as getting into bed with Russia in the first place! When you consider that he had already outlined invading Russia as a key part of his strategy in Mein Kampf, 15 years earlier, it was always going to be a matter of when, not if.

As for Japan. You can't really blame the guy for not dreaming they would invade the USA!

[Hermit]

Hitler did try to do just that very hard and discovered that he did not have the means to do that, not then and not in another year. He also had to attack the Soviet Union before it attacked Germany. The longer he delayed invading it, the more likely it became that a Soviet invasion of Germany was going to succeed.

In a partly recorded conversation with the commander of the Finnish armed forces, Mannerheim, he explained why he attacked the Soviet Union when he did. (The explanation begins at the three minute mark.)

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Hitler did try to do just that very hard and discovered that he did not have the means to do that, not then and not in another year. He also had to attack the Soviet Union before it attacked Germany. The longer he delayed invading it, the more likely it became that a Soviet invasion of Germany was going to succeed.

In a partly recorded conversation with the commander of the Finnish armed forces, Mannerheim, he explained why he attacked the Soviet Union when he did. (The explanation begins at the three minute mark.)

So, pretty much what I said. But with evidence!

[JimC]

Simples. The English Channel, the Royal Navy and the RAF.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Simples. The English Channel, the Royal Navy and the RAF.

And Biggles. Don't forget Biggles.

[JimC]

"Chocks away, chaps" Biggles ejaculated.

"Beware the hun in the sun!"

(I confess to being a great reader of Biggles books as a lad. It has made me the man I am today...)

[jamest]

In order to invade Britain, Hitler would have needed completely different equipment to that which he used to conquer the rest of Europe - to whit, landing craft in great numbers. An air invasion could not have planted enough troops, quickly enough, to establish a beachhead - and, even if it could, that beachhead would be cut off from his power-base!

My point is: why give up in September 1940? Why not give it another year, or so? Invade Russia afterwards. Plus, don't make silly alliances with Japan... no need.

He was mad. He hated Stalin. He hated Comm'nists. He hated Slavs.

I obviously understand the concept of emotion, but you'd expect that anyone capable of becoming the leader of Germany (sufficient to influence most other Germans) would have had the 'brains' to understand that you need a good rational plan before embarking upon such an enterprise as he undertook?!!

He feared Stalin getting too strong,

Maybe, but another year or so wouldn't have made much difference. Particularly when defeating Britain and gaining access to 'her' empire would have made Germany oh-so-much more powerful within a very short period of time.

Barbarossa was a huge tactical mistake

Not really. I am of the opinion that it could have been a success if he'd have [delayed and] got rid of Britain first. Also, don't wait until 22nd June to invade. Given knowledge of the Russian winter/spring they should have gone about 8 to 10 weeks earlier, which might have made all the difference. They probably were aware of this, which indicates two possibilities:

a) They weren't actually ready to invade in April/May 1941, so it was a duff decision to proceed regardless.
b) They were being utterly unrealistic in expecting to reach Moscow and The Ural mountains before [say] November, after invading in late June. As we all know, Russia is massive.

- perhaps as big as getting into bed with Russia in the first place!

That was probably the smartest move he made, to be honest: kid your enemy into thinking you like them.

As for Japan. You can't really blame the guy for not dreaming they would invade the USA!

I'm not a historian, nor expert in WW2, but I'm pretty sure that the USA were giving Japan grief for a few years prior to Pearl Harbor. The writing was definitely on the wall, I think.

[jamest]

Hitler did try to do just that very hard and discovered that he did not have the means to do that, not then and not in another year. He also had to attack the Soviet Union before it attacked Germany. The longer he delayed invading it, the more likely it became that a Soviet invasion of Germany was going to succeed.

In a partly recorded conversation with the commander of the Finnish armed forces, Mannerheim, he explained why he attacked the Soviet Union when he did. (The explanation begins at the three minute mark.)

So, pretty much what I said. But with evidence!

I watched it. The only evidence I witnessed of Russia having tens-of-thousands of tanks all wanting to head westwards was in Hitler's fucked-up head.

The only reason Hitler managed to get to the gates of Moscow in the latter stages of 1941 was precisely because Russia was not sufficiently prepared for any major action in The West (and especially not against Germany)... which utterly contradicts everything he has to say in this clip. The Russians would have been totally fucked without the dire winter/spring of 41/42, which suffices to indicate that Hitler was talking utter bollocks.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Hitler did try to do just that very hard and discovered that he did not have the means to do that, not then and not in another year. He also had to attack the Soviet Union before it attacked Germany. The longer he delayed invading it, the more likely it became that a Soviet invasion of Germany was going to succeed.

In a partly recorded conversation with the commander of the Finnish armed forces, Mannerheim, he explained why he attacked the Soviet Union when he did. (The explanation begins at the three minute mark.)

So, pretty much what I said. But with evidence!

I watched it. The only evidence I witnessed of Russia having tens-of-thousands of tanks all wanting to head westwards was in Hitler's fucked-up head.

The only reason Hitler managed to get to the gates of Moscow in the latter stages of 1941 was precisely because Russia was not sufficiently prepared for any major action in The West (and especially not against Germany)... which utterly contradicts everything he has to say in this clip. The Russians would have been totally fucked without the dire winter/spring of 41/42, which suffices to indicate that Hitler was talking utter bollocks.

Like I said. He was mad. Bonkers. Fucking butterflies in his dreams. He drank the Koolaid before there was any Koolaid! He thought a relatively tiny country like Germany could conquer the WHOLE FUCKING WORLD because Manifest Destiny! He thought DAJOOZ!TM were the single and whole cause of EVERYTHING that was wrong with EVERYTHING! He was a donkey short of a beach, a bannister short of a staircase, a sneeze short of a fever and a sadistic nursie short of a public school. He was, not to beat about the bush, put too fine a point on it, procrastinate or delay the inevitable, daft as a lorry.

That was why he did stupid shit. The big question. The FUCKING HUGE question. Is why did so many, albeit equally despicable, people go along with his bonkersness for so fucking long? The only explanation I can come up with is that his early successes were so UNBELIEVABLY decisive and unprecedented, that everyone else in the German high-command was swept along in a massive euphoric rush until it was too late to start doubting and damage-limitation was the only course.

[jamest]

Simples. The English Channel, the Royal Navy and the RAF.

The RAF was on its last legs by the end of the 'Battle of Britain'. Indeed, if the Germans had stuck to attacking RAF airfields (instead of changing strategy and bombing London/cities) then Britain would have lost the air war.

Further, the Royal Navy could not operate in [or anywhere near] the English Channel unless the RAF were dominant/victorious, so were actually powerless to deter a German amphibious assault. The battle in the sky was the key to everything... and Germany was oh-so-close to winning that. Would have done so too, had they not given up so soon.

Lastly, the English Channel itself does not prohibit a decisive military assault against Britain in 1940/41, any more than it prohibits a decisive military assault against the Germans in Normandy, in 1944.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Simples. The English Channel, the Royal Navy and the RAF.

The RAF was on its last legs by the end of the 'Battle of Britain'. Indeed, if the Germans had stuck to attacking RAF airfields (instead of changing strategy and bombing London/cities) then Britain would have lost the air war.

Further, the Royal Navy could not operate in [or anywhere near] the English Channel unless the RAF were dominant/victorious, so were actually powerless to deter a German amphibious assault. The battle in the sky was the key to everything... and Germany was oh-so-close to winning that. Would have done so too, had they not given up so soon.

Lastly, the English Channel itself does not prohibit a decisive military assault against Britain in 1940/41, any more than it prohibits a decisive military assault against the Germans in Normandy, in 1944.

Damn! Perhaps their hindsight was faulty!

[laklak]

Tyrone Power and Betty Grable, of course. If it wasn't for them you'd all be speaking German.