Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:26 pm

born-again-atheist wrote:You failed to differentiate between Academic "History" and colloquial 'history'. It can refer either to the specifics of recorded history, or the aggregate of all past events.
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Anyone can write in whatever they want. My intent was a discussion of the five most important historical events/occurrences that shaped how the world is today. I intended historical to mean events that involved humans and and human civilization and I tried to distinguish between things like inventions and specific people. I listed the kind of historical events I was thinking of, like the 2nd Punic War, the Battle of Hastings, etc.

I agree that an event in time that is key to the very existence of humanity would be the big bang, the Cambrian Explosion, the asteroid impact that killed off the dinosaurs, the various mass extinctions, the asteroid impact that created the Moon, the formation of the Sun, etc., and all sorts of other things. But, by "in history" I meant "historical" events as distinct from "prehistoric" events, to limit the discussion.

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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by orpheus » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:37 pm

macdoc wrote:
With the development of the written word.
I disagree, oral traditions are just as valid...and many histories are simply codified versions of that anyway...
So how about this for an important one: The beginning of history itself (oral or written).
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Trolldor » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:52 pm

Oral traditions are not a reliable source of history, and as value goes they are some of the lowest.
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by RuleBritannia » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:12 pm

Surely everything that's happened in history is important. According to the butterfly effect, even minor alterations to the past could drastically change the future.
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:37 pm

The fun of this thought exercise is to be able to discuss a particular event, and to explain how it effected/changed the world. Often that dovetails with the question of how things would have turned out if a different result of an event occurred.

The reason I chose 1066 and the Battle of Hastings is that we can arguably look at that event in particular, and 1066 in general, and see how the world from then on out would have been much different as a direct and necessary result of that single day in history.

Had Harold Godwinson defeated William the Bastard at Hastings, Anglo Saxon England would not have fallen to the Normans. The Norman feudal system would not have taken root in England, and the entire history of the English Monarchy would have been completely different, as no Norman rulers would have been present. It may well have resulted in the British Empire never existing, as the military advancements and discipline that the Normans brought would never have been added to the mix in England.

One can then speculate on an even weirder "what if..." As we all learn in history class in high school or equivalent, we know that Godwinson lost to William after Godwinson defeated the Viking forces at Stamford Bridge. So, Godwinson had hustled up from the South all the way up to near York with his army, fought a pitched battle, defeated the Vikings, and then had to hot-foot it back down to meet William just a few weeks later at Hastings. One might wonder what would have happened if Harald Hardada defeated Godwinson at Stamford Bridge and the next battle might have been William vs. Harald Hardrada and not Harold Godwinson. Many historians have speculated that the luck that Godwinson had in meeting Hardrada more or less by surprise while much of the Viking supplies, armor and weapons were back at York won the day for Godwinson.

If Harald Hardrada won at Stamford Bridge - could he have defeated William at Hastings (or wherever)? What might England had looked like if Harald Hardrada became King of England instead of William, or of Godwinson remained King after defeating the other two?

I think England might very well not have risen to its amazing heights had it not been for William. I don't see either Harald Hardrada or Harold Godwinson doing what William did after the Conquest and organizing England and developing the system that led to England's early expansion.

But, then again, I'm an American - maybe the English among us, who probably study this in greater depth, have keener insight.

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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by macdoc » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:52 pm

by born-again-atheist » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:52 am

Oral traditions are not a reliable source of history, and as value goes they are some of the lowest.
neither are many written ones...see bible :roll:
When Does World History Begin? (And Why Should We Care?)
By David Northrup, Boston College, Massachusetts, USA (August 2003)

Advances in evidence and understanding challenge the conventional view that history begins with written records.


Nonliterate societies and unlettered social classes, not just the literate élite, are now standard subjects of historical inquiry. Moreover, advances in archaeology and other disciplines have made ‘prehistory’ knowable. Advocates of ‘Big History’ start history with the Big Bang, but a less radical beginning is the point at which humans first began to display modern esthetic and intellectual traits – a point that now seems to coincide with the evolution of biologically modern humans.
I'd say he has the background to make that claim
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Professor Northrup teaches courses on the history of sub-Saharan Africa, Atlantic history, globalization, and world history. His research has dealt with pre-colonial Nigeria, early colonial Congo, the Atlantic slave trade, Asian and African indentured labor migration, and African encounters with Europe in the pre-colonial era. His work has included British, Belgian, and French colonialism in Africa. He served as President of the World History Association during 2004 and 2005.
For instance Shaka Zulu has as much influence on Southern Africa and it's configuration as Napoleon did in Europe yet there was not written account from the Zulus themselves....
Their loss to the British ( a near thing ) shifted the entire focus of how Southern Africa developed....

Is the Zulu version not history??

BTW Shaka Zulu is an incredible story....few in history have been able to transform a people into a war machine, weapon change, tactics change, even to the point of sending sons to other families the way the British nobility did....powerful enough to send the might of the English Empire reeling...
Some background...

http://www.heritage-history.com/www/her ... s_zulu.php

We are far too Euro centric.....few understand just how big Africa is.....
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by nellikin » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am

I really do believe that modern civilisation started at the end of the last ice-age with the start of agriculture and this could singly be the most defining and important event in the history of civilisations. Jared Diamond illustrates this nicely in Guns, Germs and Steel: A short history of everyone for the last 13000 years (my italics).

As for the other suggestions, they seem very Euro-centric to me (on the whole - not all). I don't think that European wars really shaped modern civilisations as much as we're taught - the western world just likes to over-emphasize its importance. We certainly don't seem to learn much from the wars the Western world has indulged in for the past 1000 years, so I think they are arguably not as important as people would make out.
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Trolldor » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:51 am

neither are many written ones...see bible
A great many written sources are preserved, they do not change and fluctuate with time. All oral histories do.
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Lion IRC » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:18 am

nellikin wrote:
Lion IRC wrote:The rise of self consciousness. (Palaeolithic age)
The ministry of Jesus of Nazareth (Axial age)
The investiture controversy. (Middle age)
The rise of the university. (Middle age)
The rise of the corporation
Quantum weirdness and the death of the theory of everything. (Post modern age)
The rise of New Atheism (Second renaissance of religion)

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PS - I should have probably put something about maths/counting in there as well.
Too true - considering you suggested 7 things and were only asked for 5 ;)
This is a 7 most important thread derail attempt.

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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by RuleBritannia » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:25 am

Creation of the atom bomb has, in my opinion, made the world a safer place.
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Lion IRC » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:42 am

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Randydeluxe wrote: 1. The big bang.
2. Abiogenesis on earth.
3. The mitochondrial merger.
4. The emergence of photosynthesis.
5. The K-T asteroid impact.
Those are great, events, but all of them are pre-historic and the OP concerns historical events.
RuleBritannia wrote:Creation of the atom bomb has, in my opinion, made the world a safer place.
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:"Fire on demand"

"Invention of organized warfare"
"First city established"
"Invention of writing"
"Control of electricity"
OP notes, not referring to inventions...
Maybe we need a thread derail for Seven most important events including inventions and allowing a wider definition of the word historic.

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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Deep Sea Isopod » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:59 am

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Had Harold Godwinson defeated William the Bastard at Hastings, Anglo Saxon England would not have fallen to the Normans. The Norman feudal system would not have taken root in England, and the entire history of the English Monarchy would have been completely different, as no Norman rulers would have been present. It may well have resulted in the British Empire never existing, as the military advancements and discipline that the Normans brought would never have been added to the mix in England..

Good one.

In that case I'll go for the Battle of Sedgemoor. The battle which saw the end of the Monmouth Rebelion, and leaving James II on the throne.


I'll also add...
US independence.
Agriculture
Ending of slavery
The union of the British Kindoms.
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by NoFreeWill » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:31 am

The only two battles I can think of that haven't been mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Salamis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by macdoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:27 pm

A great many written sources are preserved, they do not change and fluctuate with time.
:funny: :funny: :funny:

neither do the Inca knot messages and we still don't know fuck all about those an
The thing that changes over time is translation and interpretation and even what the reader brings to it.....

Sorry but your concept of preserved over time by writing it down is an utter failure. :coffee:
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Re: Five Most Important Events/Occurrences in History...

Post by Trolldor » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:38 pm

Your grasp of written sources is hilarious.
Written sources are more than just fables and legends translated to seventeen languages, it's private letters, stone etchings, heirogylphs, graffiti. A written source is infinitely more valuable than any word-of-mouth. A story can change in minutes, let alone over centuries, millenia.
and even what the reader brings to it.....
Complete and utter post-modern bullshit. A 21st century historian does not apply a 21st century perspective on a first century piece of writing. If you think that is in anyway a valid approach to history, you really need to go back to school.
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