U.K. is not a synonym of England

[Cormac]

Northern Ireland is certainly in the north of Ireland, but the most northerly point in Ireland is not in Northern Ireland, so it is therefore in the south.

Doesn't that depend who you are talking to? Those that suggest that Northern Ireland is illegally occupied, would suggest, with great ire, that Northern Ireland is Irish and therefore it is, indeed, the northern part of Ireland.

Either way, Dev is completely correct.

I'm curious to know who, exactly, consider Northern Ireland to be "illegally occupied". Was it that guy on the bus the other day, who kept telling me that his greyhound was the re-incarnation of Napolean?

There is a coherent argument that until the Good Friday Agreement, Northern Ireland was illegally occupied.

Not necessarily my view, but the argument exists nonetheless.

Northern Ireland was definitely corruptly run along sharply sectarian lines, with a disgraceful collusion and alignment between terrorists and the UK government.

[Red Celt]

That grouping is not a political entity, is it?

What political entity do those islands belong to?

Where are you trying to take this? The political entities those islands belong to are England, Scotland and Wales. But those 3 countries don't solely exist on the largest island. They also exist on the little islands that surround the biggest island.

So what? That makes them part of England, Scotland and/or Wales, and also part of the UK.

They aren't "politically" part of Great Britain, because Great Britain isn't a political entity. England is not "politically" part of anything called Great Britain either. England is geographically on Great Britain, and politically part of the UK.

How many different colours do you want to be painted wrong on this?

Only a part of England is geographically on Great Britain. It is vastly the major part, but it is still only a part. A better example is Scotland. Part of which is on Great Britain and another (large) part isn't on Great Britain. The geographical Great Britain contains the majority of England and Wales... and Scotland, but that majority is a good deal smaller.

[Red Celt]

There is a coherent argument that until the Good Friday Agreement, Northern Ireland was illegally occupied.

Not necessarily my view, but the argument exists nonetheless.

Well, there's arguments and there's laws. Which law(s) were being broken?

Northern Ireland was definitely corruptly run along sharply sectarian lines, with a disgraceful collusion and alignment between terrorists and the UK government.

Indeed.

Disgraceful but understandable, however. There were extremists on both sides who resorted to terrorism. One group of terrorists were happy to kill the policing forces, whereas the other definitely wasn't. Alliances between governments and terrorists are disgraceful, but fuck it... if I was there, in that situation, I'd have done exactly the same thing. Better to drink with the devil that doesn't want to kill you, if that devil wants to kill the devil that wants to kill you. That sounded more elegant in my head.

[Coito ergo sum]

That grouping is not a political entity, is it?

What political entity do those islands belong to?

Where are you trying to take this? The political entities those islands belong to are England, Scotland and Wales. But those 3 countries don't solely exist on the largest island. They also exist on the little islands that surround the biggest island.

So what? That makes them part of England, Scotland and/or Wales, and also part of the UK.

They aren't "politically" part of Great Britain, because Great Britain isn't a political entity. England is not "politically" part of anything called Great Britain either. England is geographically on Great Britain, and politically part of the UK.

How many different colours do you want to be painted wrong on this?

One, if I'm wrong.

Only a part of England is geographically on Great Britain.

I never said otherwise. England is on Great Britain like the US is on North America.

It is vastly the major part, but it is still only a part. A better example is Scotland. Part of which is on Great Britain and another (large) part isn't on Great Britain. The geographical Great Britain contains the majority of England and Wales... and Scotland, but that majority is a good deal smaller.

I've never denied that.

What I'm making clear is that your assertion that there is a political Great Britain doesn't seem to jibe with reality. If a Merkin said England was politically part of Great Britain, he'd be chided heartily. It's not. Neither are the islands you mentioned. They are geographically part of Great Britain, and they are politically part of the UK (and the islands are also politically part of England, Wales and Scotland as the case may be depending on the island). Isn't that right?

[Red Celt]

England is on Great Britain like the US is on North America.

Before I reply to the rest of your post... what about Hawaii? It's part of the US but it isn't on North America.

[Coito ergo sum]

England is on Great Britain like the US is on North America.

Before I reply to the rest of your post... what about Hawaii? It's part of the US but it isn't on North America.

That is, of course, the point. England is on Great Britain, even though some of it is not. The US is on North America, even though some of it is not.

Saying the island that is not geographically part of Great Britain is "politically" part of Great Britain is like saying Hawaii is not geographically part of North America but it is politically part of North America.

Savvy?

There is no political North America and there is no political Great Britain (as far as I know - if I'm wrong, let me know).

[Red Celt]

England is on Great Britain like the US is on North America.

Before I reply to the rest of your post... what about Hawaii? It's part of the US but it isn't on North America.

That is, of course, the point. England is on Great Britain, even though some of it is not. The US is on North America, even though some of it is not.

Saying the island that is not geographically part of Great Britain is "politically" part of Great Britain is like saying Hawaii is not geographically part of North America but it is politically part of North America.

Savvy?

There is no political North America and there is no political Great Britain (as far as I know - if I'm wrong, let me know).

Can you have another go at answering my question?

Mainly, this passage. You gave it, as if it wasn't true: "Saying the island that is not geographically part of Great Britain is "politically" part of Great Britain is like saying Hawaii is not geographically part of North America but it is politically part of North America."

[Coito ergo sum]

England is on Great Britain like the US is on North America.

Before I reply to the rest of your post... what about Hawaii? It's part of the US but it isn't on North America.

That is, of course, the point. England is on Great Britain, even though some of it is not. The US is on North America, even though some of it is not.

Saying the island that is not geographically part of Great Britain is "politically" part of Great Britain is like saying Hawaii is not geographically part of North America but it is politically part of North America.

Savvy?

There is no political North America and there is no political Great Britain (as far as I know - if I'm wrong, let me know).

Can you have another go at answering my question?

Sure, but I answered it directly. What about Hawaii. Hawaii is part of the United States, not North America, just like an island can be part of England without being part of Great Britain.

Mainly, this passage. You gave it, as if it wasn't true: "Saying the island that is not geographically part of Great Britain is "politically" part of Great Britain is like saying Hawaii is not geographically part of North America but it is politically part of North America."

No -- I gave it as if they were both true. It's an analogy.

Am I correct that there is no political entity called Great Britain? That is the key to this whole discussion. My understanding is that there is no such political entity. It is an island, so it exists as a geographical area, but it is not itself a political entity. It's not a country or a nation, or a state, or a county, or a municipality or a principality or a duchy, etc. Right?

What I'm saying here is that to suggest that something is "politically" part of Great Britain is incorrect. Am I not right about that?

[Red Celt]

What I'm saying here is that to suggest that something is "politically" part of Great Britain is incorrect. Am I not right about that?

No, you're not right about that. Great Britain has 2 meanings. The geographical one is rarely used. The political one is widely used.

[Coito ergo sum]

What I'm saying here is that to suggest that something is "politically" part of Great Britain is incorrect. Am I not right about that?

No, you're not right about that. Great Britain has 2 meanings. The geographical one is rarely used. The political one is widely used.

What is the political aspect of Great Britain. Is it a country? Is it a state? Is it a commonwealth? Is it a principality? Duchy? Municipality? County? Something else? Does Great Britain have a government?

Maybe we're not seeing eye-to-eye on the meaning of the word "politics" or "politically." What does it mean for something to be "politically" part of Great Britain?

[Red Celt]

What I'm saying here is that to suggest that something is "politically" part of Great Britain is incorrect. Am I not right about that?

No, you're not right about that. Great Britain has 2 meanings. The geographical one is rarely used. The political one is widely used.

What is the political aspect of Great Britain. Is it a country? Is it a state? Is it a commonwealth? Is it a principality? Duchy? Municipality? County? Something else? Does Great Britain have a government?

Maybe we're not seeing eye-to-eye on the meaning of the word "politics" or "politically." What does it mean for something to be "politically" part of Great Britain?

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The "Great Britain" in that description? That's the political version, not the geographical version.

[Coito ergo sum]

Gotcha -- Great Britain is the island and the little islands surrounding it.

[Jason]

I'm unsatisfied with the pat answer of why the 'UK' is singular when it is composed of at least two kingdoms. No matter that the same monarch sits on both thrones.

[Svartalf]

it's ONE union... like a credit union is the sum of its money, workers, and offices.

[devogue]

Gimme, gimme, gimme fried chicken.